Minimium wage to be $15/hr in Los Angeles...Could this affect the LEGO Secondary Markets (parting out/reselling small sets)???

[brett4ve]

 

​Would it be possible to replace those jobs with robots or some form of automation?  Maybe not today, but at some point it may be cost feasible to do so, and once that corporation figures it can save money, it will. 

I don't follow robotics real close just read an article from time to time, but more and more jobs will be lost to robots/automation as costs come down.

So are we in agreement that the investment potential of Lego Mindstorms improves with this law?

[binici]

LOL, I had a great response to this and when I tried to submit, I saw it was locked

Anyhow, I think my response was something along these lines: Living in L.A. is expensive, every street has a parking meter, you have to pay for public parking and the taxes and living expenses are much higher than Orange Country. It will be interesting to see how this affects us people in the O.C. Will more people want to move into or out or L.A.? Only time will tell.

[jerryherb]

...Costco pays very high wages and is also very profitable. 

​... and gets a load of tax credits pulled from your pocket to offset the cost. mom+pop shops are not interesting enough to companies like ADP whom save "the walmarts" millions in taxes.

Edited May 20, 2015 by jerryherb

[exciter1]

All of my employees get paid well above minimum wage and support families, yet if you up the starting or base point, they will expect more than they are getting paid now.  It's a slippery slope.

​I agree 100%, if you're paying someone $13 an hour now, which is a fair wage for the position (just an example), they'll want a pay increase for the same percentage above minimum wage compared to what they are getting now.  It's human nature and all income levels will also pay the price in increased inflation in regards to business costs to provide goods & services.

​robots have been used in factories for decades (ie production lines in EVERY factory from food to heavy machinery)

self-checkouts and self/online ordering for store pickup are only the first step to getting rid of low-level service employees

​It sure feels like a benefit to me when I can checkout myself faster and more efficiently, although I do understand it's really providing the store cost of business savings.

Good news as far as I am concerned. If a business is only able to survive due to artificially low wages paid to workers thanks to subsidies from tax payers (food stamps, housing and health subsidies, tax credits etc) then should they really be in business at all? Costco pays very high wages and is also very profitable. 

​Regardless of subsidies or wages, a minimum wage increase will add cost to everything for Joe Consumer.

Edited May 20, 2015 by exciter1

[tabolton314]

​yes, flat tax. this has been mulled over for years. imagine all the IRS employees losing their jobs because their department is obsolete. 

​Not advocating a flat tax.  A flat tax would also disproportionately low income folks.  10% of $20k/year is a lot of buying power taken away vs. 10% of $100k

[boliramirez]

if you knew the MW in Mexico......

[Achilles]

"That's the way the ruling class operates in any society. They try to divide the rest of the people. They keep the lower and the middle classes fighting with each other so that they, the rich, can run off with all the :beep:ing money! Fairly simple thing. Happens to work."

-George Carlin

[tabolton314]

Another issue with not paying your employees a minimum wage is the cost to the taxpayers.  Companies like Walmart, the fast food industry (McD', Pizza Hut, etc) cost the taxpayers BILLIONS of dollars in benefits programs (SNAP, medicaid, etc). (Forbes)

Not saying those programs shouldn't be in place to support those who need it.  Just saying that paying a living wage based on cost of living for an area (or something similar) would help ease the pressure off those programs.

[bricketycricket]

Good news as far as I am concerned. If a business is only able to survive due to artificially low wages paid to workers thanks to subsidies from tax payers (food stamps, housing and health subsidies, tax credits etc) then should they really be in business at all? Costco pays very high wages and is also very profitable. 

​Just to point out, because I hear it cited a ton whenever this issue is discussed, Costco is not really like other retail businesses. They employ far fewer people because they carry very few SKUs compared to Wal-Mart, etc., and stocking a shelf at Costco consists of dropping a pallet and cutting the plastic off of it. Nevertheless, Costco does have a different philosophy than other companies in that they are actually willing to share a decent amount with their employees. But if anyone expects a place like Wal-Mart or Target to be run like Costco they're dreaming because they are completely different businesses.

[GhostDad]

I'm sympathetic to the argument that a higher minimum wage would reduce workers' dependence on taxpayer subsidies.  However, those workers who lose their jobs altogether due to a minimum wage hike will find themselves very much in need of taxpayer-funded support.

I forget the exact statistic, but essentially if you graduate high school and don't have children until you are married and at least 25 years old, your odds of living in poverty drop to just about zero.  When I read newspaper stories about single moms with three kids who can't support them all with a part-time job at Wendy's, I have to wonder what they were thinking.  Most middle class folks I know don't have more than one or two children, and waited until they were married, secure in their jobs, and well on their way to paying down a mortgage.  A single guy or gal should not have trouble living on a full-time minimum wage income.  The pinch comes when they decide to start families right out of (or instead of finishing) high school.

Edited May 20, 2015 by GhostDad

[gregpj]

It would be tough to get everyone to agree on a decent wage or standard of living.  Should they be able to support a spouse?  Children?  If so, how many? 

I think most people would agree with your sentiment, but defining that gets tricky.

​It sure is tricky... but the status quo as mentioned earlier isn't working. Study after study is showing the income gap between the richest and poorest citizens of any industrialized country is growing. The true middle class is shrinking and those people are falling into the lower-middle and lower class rather than being bumped into the upper-middle and upper classes. Here's a great piece on debunking those who believe the middle is better off now than they were 30 years ago (which even if were true that middle class families live better, there is no doubt the % of all families that are middle class is shrinking every year and is the main point ignored by those who don't believe).

http://business.time.com/2013/02/01/is-middle-class-stagnation-really-a-myth/

Anyways, LA voted to increase the wage from $9 per hour to $15 per hour over the next five years and not in one fell swoop. This increase is expected to affect 50% of workers in LA but we don't know where that 50% lands within $9-$15 anyways. As was mentioned earlier, so few people make the federal minimum wage, how many of these people are making the LA minimum of $9 per hour? Also, what would have been the natural increase in salaries over that time? Looks like political maneuvering to me rather than a real solution.

And although I agree that it will cause people who are making $16 an hour to feel like they should earn more, why should they? The bump in minimum wage is to up the standard of living for people earning not enough money to get by, not to increase wages for people already living well enough. That's up to politicians and business and fellow workers to promote. I realize there will be some ripple effect, but it's not going to cause the $16/hour earners to be making $21/hour...

Is raising the minimum wage a step in the direction? To me it is... but it's far from the only step needed.

[tabolton314]

I'm sympathetic to the argument that a higher minimum wage would reduce workers' dependence on taxpayer subsidies.  However, those workers who lose their jobs altogether due to a minimum wage hike will find themselves very much in need of taxpayer-funded support.

I forget the exact statistic, but essentially if you graduate high school and don't have children until you are married and at least 25 years old, your odds of living in poverty drop to just about zero.  When I read newspaper stories about single moms with three kids who can't support them all with a part-time job at Wendy's, I have to wonder what they were thinking.  Most middle class folks I know don't have more than one or two children, and waited until they were married, secure in their jobs, and well on their way to paying down a mortgage.  A single guy or gal should not have trouble living on a full-time minimum wage income.  The pinch comes when they decide to start families right out of (or instead of finishing) high school.

​This opens up an entirely different can of worms regarding sex education in schools, ability to exercise bodily integrity, the cycle of poverty.

Some folks don't have the luxury of being able to choose when to have kids.  They are either grossly uneducated, or have little choice in the matter once pregnancy occurs.  And then the lack of support in childcare prevents a single parent from getting a full time job.  There's lots of interconnected threads which is why it's such a tricky issue.

[exciter1]

​This opens up an entirely different can of worms regarding sex education in schools, ability to exercise bodily integrity, the cycle of poverty.

Some folks don't have the luxury of being able to choose when to have kids.  They are either grossly uneducated, or have little choice in the matter once pregnancy occurs.  And then the lack of support in childcare prevents a single parent from getting a full time job.  There's lots of interconnected threads which is why it's such a tricky issue.

​How bold is the fine line between formal education and good common sense?  They rarely go together anyway.

[KShine]

In America, our consumer society has trained us from birth to be selfish, greedy, and irresponsible - We deserve everything we want, and shouldn't need to wait before getting it.

Whether you were to increase the minimum wage to $15, $20 or $25 - One year later, most of these people would still have nothing left. 

[junkrigger]

Regardless of how you feel about this particular issue I think most would agree that something must be done about income inequality in this country.  If you personally are not willing to pay your neighbor a living wage for the work or goods they produce then how will they ever afford to buy the goods and services upon which your livelihood depends. The middle class is what made this country strong, a majority who could afford to buy the products their neighbors made.  Now I agree raising the min wage is not the best action to effect change, but is it better than nothing? Only time will tell. There is an alternative solution of course that does not need the heavy hand of government and it is quite simple. If you want to keep your own livelihood you simply need to buy the things your neighbor produces.  And furthermore demand that if a company (I am looking right at you Lego, Apple, Microsoft, Ford, GM etc) wants to sell its products in the most wealthy and profitable economies in the world then they must also employ here. And I don't just mean employ a few programmers or executives I mean real employment with production facilities and operations, and if it means their profits get cut a little or prices go up a little then that is something they and we must accept.

[biking_tiger]

In America, our consumer society has trained us from birth to be selfish, greedy, and irresponsible - We deserve everything we want, and shouldn't need to wait before getting it.

Whether you were to increase the minimum wage to $15, $20 or $25 - One year later, most of these people would still have nothing left. 

​Not to mention the now-broke former professional athletes, actors, and musicians... I wish we taught more delayed gratification, but then who would I sell over-priced LEGO sets to at Christmas?

[Achilles]

China and India are far more profitable and lucrative markets for said large companies.

Also, if you need a license to FISH or Drive a Car... What's more dangerous than being an unfit parent? Just leaving that out there...

 

 

 

 

[Darth_Raichu]

In America, our consumer society has trained us from birth to be selfish, greedy, and irresponsible - We deserve everything we want, and shouldn't need to wait before getting it.

Whether you were to increase the minimum wage to $15, $20 or $25 - One year later, most of these people would still have nothing left. 

​Ironically consumer spending is the backbone of US economy as we hardly produce anything anymore.  I do not have any data to back this up, but if people start living within their means, the US economy will slow down to a crawl or stop altogether  

[redghostx]

​How bold is the fine line between formal education and good common sense?  They rarely go together anyway.

​This opens up an entirely different can of worms regarding sex education in schools, ability to exercise bodily integrity, the cycle of poverty.

Some folks don't have the luxury of being able to choose when to have kids.  They are either grossly uneducated, or have little choice in the matter once pregnancy occurs.  And then the lack of support in childcare prevents a single parent from getting a full time job.  There's lots of interconnected threads which is why it's such a tricky issue.

We have a friend that I joke was trying to repopulate the species. She went to a private school and graduated high school fine but refused to use birth control and had 3 kids (2 dads) by the time she was 22 while working at Starbucks. 

Fortunately, she has a really good support system and extended family helped out with the kids and supplies , but ---- even people who have some education can make REALLY stupid choices. -----

She finally finished a post secondary program but is years behind because of her choices (or lack thereof).

[jerryherb]

​Ironically consumer spending is the backbone of US economy as we hardly produce anything anymore.  I do not have any data to back this up, but if people start living within their means, the US economy will slow down to a crawl or stop altogether  

​^ This. however it is ok to incur debt if you can make more money off the principal to cover the interest with cash to spare. buying a porsche to get the ladies is not a smart investment... 

Edited May 20, 2015 by jerryherb

[tabolton314]

​How bold is the fine line between formal education and good common sense?  They rarely go together anyway.

​You assume that common sense is common.  Sadly, it ain't. 

If you look at the stats on how abstinence only education is doing, you see that teenage pregnancy is actually up.  You have a lethal combination of uneducation by schools, and uneducation by parents who don't want to talk about sex with their kids.  These areas are typically the areas that also are trying to do away with abortion.  So you have kids who don't know any better (as they're going to have sex regardless of what they're taught), who then have no means to do anything but raise the kids.

[junkrigger]

China and India are far more profitable and lucrative markets for said large companies.

Also, if you need a license to FISH or Drive a Car... What's more dangerous than being an unfit parent? Just leaving that out there...

 

 

 

 

​How many Lego sets were sold in India and China last year? Here are some apple numbers. Biggest market Americas, Second Europe, Third China.  I guess India would be grouped in with The Rest of Asia at a paltry 10% of the America market.  http://techcrunch.com/2014/01/27/apple-international-q1-2014/

 

Lets add some Ford numbers in also 57% U.S.A. Then Europe, then Canada, then all other countries at 21%  http://csimarket.com/stocks/segments_geo.php?code=F

Edited May 20, 2015 by junkrigger

[biking_tiger]

​I believe small businesses employ about half the workforce, so many would be left out.  In my experience, if you are reliable and are willing to show up for work, you can make well above minimum wage.  You don't even have to be good at what you do.  Showing up is the hard part...LOL

​I work with a local technical college with graduates who land jobs about 87% of the time in their chosen fields. The other 13%? High, drunk, or they didn't show up for work.

Let's see: stay sober and be on time. It doesn't seem like rocket science, and those graduates are all making well above minimum wage (2.5-4x at entry level) for a modest amount of training.

[tabolton314]

Also, if you need a license to FISH or Drive a Car... What's more dangerous than being an unfit parent? Just leaving that out there...

 

 

 

 

​Easiest solution would be to put birth control in the water.  Then if you want a kid, you go get a prescription to negate the birth control effects. 

Just like fluoride

[gregpj]

​Easiest solution would be to put birth control in the water.  Then if you want a kid, you go get a prescription to negate the birth control effects. 

Just like fluoride

​Poor people don't drink water, they drink cheap cola.