Minimium wage to be $15/hr in Los Angeles...Could this affect the LEGO Secondary Markets (parting out/reselling small sets)???

[binici]

Not sure how to feel about this...

Let's discuss how this is a FAIL or a WIN?  Does it affect the LEGO secondary markets?  Would people rather work a job than part LEGO sets out or flip small sets considering the fact that parting out LEGO sets usually equates to a minimum wage job?

Edited May 20, 2015 by Ed Mack

[mscheaf]

It would be nice if the taxpayers didn't have to help support the employees of highly profitable companies. But the people and their walmart/must get everything for pennies mentality is really what caused the low wages in the first place. I will tell you one thing though and you can take this to the bank: whether prices are higher and wages are also higher, or prices and wages continue to plummet (relative to inflation), the executives and the gilded class are going to continue to get richer.

[wsuskee]

They are trying to do this in part of WA state as well.  I think in certain places where its expensive to live then it makes since.  So LA would be fine but we have cities here where it makes no sense at all.  Places in Seattle have already closed directly because of this law.  I make most of my money from tips but my base pay is $9 something.  Going to $15 an hour would give me a raise on my base pay but my hours would be cut and my overall income would take a hit.

So coming from someone who makes minimum wage I say its a fail.

[jaisonline]

the mods discussed this thread.  it can be considered political and is really way off the topic of lego.  we are just afraid of what it can turn into even with insightful posts that are well-intended.  we do understand it was created in the correct forum which is appreciated. 

[Ed Mack]

This is a dangerous topic, but let's see how it goes.  People need to realize this is not about larger corporations.  This will damage many small business owners and force them to find ways to function without employees.  As a car wash owner, if this came to NJ, I would be forced to invest 300-400K into new equipment and POS systems and lay off most of my help.  Ten people would lose their jobs.  Minimum wage was designed for inexperienced and young workers to get a foot in the door...it was not meant to support a family.  

[jaisonline]

thread unlocked.

[justapilgrim]

Something like 2% of families live on minimum wage. Who are these laws trying to help? Mom and pop stores end up closing and Walmart does fine as it installs more self check out lanes

Largest corporate tax payer in US? Walmart

[Ed Mack]

thread unlocked.

​Let's see if we can have some intelligent conversation about this.  I was in the middle of posting my comment when you wrote your response.  In an indirect way, this does have some bearing on the LEGO secondary markets.  If the minimum wage is $15 per hour, does it pay to part sets out...or even resell some smaller sets?

[Achilles]

This is a dangerous topic, but let's see how it goes.  People need to realize this is not about larger corporations.  This will damage many small business owners and force them to find ways to function without employees.  As a car wash owner, if this came to NJ, I would be forced to invest 300-400K into new equipment and POS systems and lay off most of my help.  Ten people would lose their jobs.  Minimum wage was designed for inexperienced and young workers to get a foot in the door...it was not meant to support a family.  

​The jobs that WERE meant to support a family are constantly being outsourced or disappearing. In 2010 84% of jobs were service sector jobs. In 1970, it was 64%. Good production has dropped from 30% to 13% in that same time span. 

Meanwhile, our economy is more and more "leisure" based, everyone is competing for you leisure dollar, and people have less and less. So if you don't give people more money to spend, those business will have fewer and fewer customers. 

I actually don't have an actual opinion on the minimum wage itself and the numbers. But I think the reality of today's society is a lot of jobs are kept around simply because they need things for people to do, not because the jobs need doing. Wages have not nearly risen in line with profits (Primarily because one of the major ways companies increase profits is reducing workers/pay/benefits). I am not sure if minimum wage is the answer, but I fully support places trying something different because it seems obvious to me what we have now doesn't work, certainly not in the long term and not for the majority of people.

 

[gregpj]

This is a dangerous topic, but let's see how it goes.  People need to realize this is not about larger corporations.  This will damage many small business owners and force them to find ways to function without employees.  As a car wash owner, if this came to NJ, I would be forced to invest 300-400K into new equipment and POS systems and lay off most of my help.  Ten people would lose their jobs.  Minimum wage was designed for inexperienced and young workers to get a foot in the door...it was not meant to support a family.  

That's the biggest problem right there. Big corporations are the ones abusing minimum wage/part-time positions as a way to avoid paying full-time wages and benefits. It's the easy political solution to raise minimum wage rather than force the big companies to fix their broken hiring practices.

Something like 2% of families live on minimum wage. Who are these laws trying to help? Mom and pop stores end up closing and Walmart does fine as it installs more self check out lanes

Largest corporate tax payer in US? Walmart

​Apparently it's a little more than that... just above 4%. But if you read on, almost 80% of the minimum wage earners are 25 or over. Minimum wage earners are also disproportionately female and non-white. As I said above, raising the minimum wage is the "easy" way to try and fix the problem of too many part-time positions in the workforce.

http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2013.pdf

 

[weakside]

Smaller businesses/operations would hurt too obviously.  The mom and pop stores that could afford to hire help will likely have to lay people off...their margins are small enough already.  If their staff makes $15/hr than the staff would make more than the owner/employer in some/most cases.

Didn't McD's in the US raised the hourly wage for staff in some regions? 

Here in Toronto, CAN...some folks are pushing for $15min/'living wage' also.  But I just can't see how some employers can afford it.  Price sensitivity appears more in some goods/services than others also if prices are to increase to reflect the new wages.         

 

[fuzzy_bricks]

Minimum wage was designed for inexperienced and young workers to get a foot in the door...it was not meant to support a family.  

​I think this were people get crossed up.  Just because you have a job, does not mean you are entitled to the same standard of living as someone with a higher paying job.

These are entry level jobs, not careers.

​The jobs that WERE meant to support a family are constantly being outsourced or disappearing. In 2010 84% of jobs were service sector jobs. In 1970, it was 64%. Good production has dropped from 30% to 13% in that same time span.

​What types of jobs were meant to support a family?  Manufacturing?

 

[BrickLegacy]

@Ed Mack - you can post a wanted/trade ad on brickclassifieds.com:

Wanted: $300k car wash equipment + POS system (used/like new acceptable)

Offering: 10% equity stake in my LEGO collection.

Restrictions: local pickup-only.

[tabolton314]

This is a dangerous topic, but let's see how it goes.  People need to realize this is not about larger corporations.  This will damage many small business owners and force them to find ways to function without employees.  As a car wash owner, if this came to NJ, I would be forced to invest 300-400K into new equipment and POS systems and lay off most of my help.  Ten people would lose their jobs.  Minimum wage was designed for inexperienced and young workers to get a foot in the door...it was not meant to support a family.  

​Minimum wage was not instituted for the inexperienced and young workers.  It was meant by FDR to be a living wage, and was introduced as part of the Fair Labor Act, which also did away with child labor and instituting the 40hr work week.  From the Cornell Law Website:

The purpose of the minimum wage was to stabilize the post-depression economy and protect the workers in the labor force. The minimum wage was designed to create a minimum standard of living to protect the health and well-being of employees.

In other words, it was meant to protect those  without a lot of bargaining power.  Menial laborers, factory workers, etc.

[gregpj]

​I think this were people get crossed up.  Just because you have a job, does not mean you are entitled to the same standard of living as someone with a higher paying job.

These are entry level jobs, not careers.

But the reality is that some of these "entry level jobs" are careers for people. Do they deserve to make a decent wage? I think so.... Do they deserve the same wage as my partner and I? Hello no... We are both highly educated (her even more so than I) and believe we've earned the right to our standard of living. However, would I give up a little of my purchasing power if I knew it was going to help those who are barely scraping by? In a heartbeat.... we make enough, we won't suffer.

**edit @ Weakside** 

People really pushing for "Living Wages" in Canada don't want to just raise the minimum wage in one fell swoop though. They want govt and businesses to commit to it and other changes over a period of time. These changes are things like more full-time positions, proper benefits, govt supported education programs (to get young people out of minimum wage jobs), govt supported programs for training those who may lose jobs, etc.

 

Edited May 20, 2015 by gregpj

[Ed Mack]

​Minimum wage was not instituted for the inexperienced and young workers.  It was meant by FDR to be a living wage, and was introduced as part of the Fair Labor Act, which also did away with child labor and instituting the 40hr work week.  From the Cornell Law Website:

The purpose of the minimum wage was to stabilize the post-depression economy and protect the workers in the labor force. The minimum wage was designed to create a minimum standard of living to protect the health and well-being of employees.

In other words, it was meant to protect those  without a lot of bargaining power.  Menial laborers, factory workers, etc.

​Excellent point.  A person learns something new everyday.  I guess my point is that today, most consider minimum wage an entry level wage.  All of my employees get paid well above minimum wage and support families, yet if you up the starting or base point, they will expect more than they are getting paid now.  It's a slippery slope.

[Migration]

Having spent 20 years in an industry famous for low wages (retail) I can say that for many of the employees making minimum or near minimum wage this is their career. The 30 people unloading trucks at 3am are not high school students. Also the large corporations have plenty of room margin wise to raise entry level pay. Perhaps a small business exclusion is warranted here, similar to servers or bar staff that make well below minimum.

[Ed Mack]

Having spent 20 years in an industry famous for low wages (retail) I can say that for many of the employees making minimum or near minimum wage this is their career. The 30 people unloading trucks at 3am are not high school students. Also the large corporations have plenty of room margin wise to raise entry level pay. Perhaps a small business exclusion is warranted here, similar to servers or bar staff that make well below minimum.

​I believe small businesses employ about half the workforce, so many would be left out.  In my experience, if you are reliable and are willing to show up for work, you can make well above minimum wage.  You don't even have to be good at what you do.  Showing up is the hard part...LOL

[redghostx]

yet if you up the starting or base point, they will expect more than they are getting paid now.  It's a slippery slope.

​This is a key point.  If you are a person making $17 an hour compared to a minimum wage of $10 an hour, you will expect a proportional jump when the minimum wage increases. 

 

Add, this COULD actually increase the market for $10-40 sets on the secondary market.

Edited May 20, 2015 by redghostx

[GhostDad]

Careful on the margin point.  Most grocery chains, for example, have profit margins of around 1%.  For Wal-Mart, I believe the figure is 3.5% or so, and about 4.5% for Target.  Retail is not where the massive corporate profits are located (check out software or finance, and those industries pay far above minimum wage already).  California frequently runs experiments like this, and they sometimes work.  I don't think this will be one of those times.  Especially with the added cost of mandatory health insurance, employees are going to end up being more costly than automation in many cases (automation already benefits from ultralow interest rates on business loans for equipment).

As far as supporting a family goes, two parents making minimum wage full time can support one or two kids in most parts of the country.  Consider that in that case the family is already entitled to substantial health care subsidies and a sizable earned income tax credit.  Their effective federal tax rate will be negative.  To expect to raise several children on one parent's minimum wage income in a city like LA or NY is simply not reasonable.

[fuzzy_bricks]

But the reality is that some of these "entry level jobs" are careers for people. Do they deserve to make a decent wage? I think so.... Do they deserve the same wage as my partner and I? Hello no... We are both highly educated (her even more so than I) and believe we've earned the right to our standard of living. However, would I give up a little of my purchasing power if I knew it was going to help those who are barely scraping by? In a heartbeat.... we make enough, we won't suffer.

It would be tough to get everyone to agree on a decent wage or standard of living.  Should they be able to support a spouse?  Children?  If so, how many? 

I think most people would agree with your sentiment, but defining that gets tricky.

 

Having spent 20 years in an industry famous for low wages (retail) I can say that for many of the employees making minimum or near minimum wage this is their career. The 30 people unloading trucks at 3am are not high school students. Also the large corporations have plenty of room margin wise to raise entry level pay. Perhaps a small business exclusion is warranted here, similar to servers or bar staff that make well below minimum.

​Would it be possible to replace those jobs with robots or some form of automation?  Maybe not today, but at some point it may be cost feasible to do so, and once that corporation figures it can save money, it will. 

I don't follow robotics real close just read an article from time to time, but more and more jobs will be lost to robots/automation as costs come down.

[jerryherb]

It would be tough to get everyone to agree on a decent wage or standard of living.  Should they be able to support a spouse?  Children?  If so, how many? 

I think most people would agree with your sentiment, but defining that gets tricky.

 

 

​Would it be possible to replace those jobs with robots or some form of automation?  Maybe not today, but at some point it may be cost feasible to do so, and once that corporation figures it can save money, it will. 

I don't follow robotics real close just read an article from time to time, but more and more jobs will be lost to robots/automation as costs come down.

​

robots have been used in factories for decades (ie production lines in EVERY factory from food to heavy machinery)

self-checkouts and self/online ordering for store pickup are only the first step to getting rid of low-level service employees

those screaming for increases in minimum wage dont realize that everyone will need to be paid more, hence rapid increase in inflation and we're back at the same place we started.

forgot to add and agree with the consesus. mom+pop shops are definitely going to be the ones hurt the most and drive up the unemployment and need for entitlements. only the large corporations will survive, however who's going to have money to shop there if no one has a job and 1% is the thing of the past?

Edited May 20, 2015 by jerryherb

[tabolton314]

If only the minimum wage increases had been tied to something, like the cost of living or consumer price index.  Then it would've been slowly increasing all along, keeping the buying power of those on minimum wage stable over the years. 

I do think there's a LOT the government could be doing to help people besides this.  All states with a sales tax replace it with something else (regressive sales tax hurts low income folks the most).  Make big corporations pay what they should in taxes (Boeing not getting a tax refund).  Tax ALL income at the same rate (Warren Buffet's famous quote about paying less taxes than his secretary.  This is due to paying 15% of capital gains vs income tax rate).

Not that the tax code really needs to be more complicated.

[jerryherb]

If only the minimum wage increases had been tied to something, like the cost of living or consumer price index.  Then it would've been slowly increasing all along, keeping the buying power of those on minimum wage stable over the years. 

I do think there's a LOT the government could be doing to help people besides this.  All states with a sales tax replace it with something else (regressive sales tax hurts low income folks the most).  Make big corporations pay what they should in taxes (Boeing not getting a tax refund).  Tax ALL income at the same rate (Warren Buffet's famous quote about paying less taxes than his secretary.  This is due to paying 15% of capital gains vs income tax rate).

Not that the tax code really needs to be more complicated.

​yes, flat tax. this has been mulled over for years. imagine all the IRS employees losing their jobs because their department is obsolete. 

[asharerin]

Good news as far as I am concerned. If a business is only able to survive due to artificially low wages paid to workers thanks to subsidies from tax payers (food stamps, housing and health subsidies, tax credits etc) then should they really be in business at all? Costco pays very high wages and is also very profitable.