Seller Used My Photos

[tabolton314]

 

​slip of my non legal tongue i meant copyright not tradmark.  but anway from Ebay's terms of service.

 

text and photo reuse would certainly be an interesting case study.  heck you could argue the same protections that allow you to take the photo of the box for sale, also allow others to use copies of your photos for the same purpose.

​Pretty sure that only works for EBAY using your photos, not other sellers.  So if EBAY suddenly went into the lego reselling business, and was selling legos through EBAY, then this would hold water and they could use any picture ever uploaded to their servers. 

I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.

[I am Niko]

 

​slip of my non legal tongue i meant copyright not tradmark.  but anway from Ebay's terms of service.

 

text and photo reuse would certainly be an interesting case study.  heck you could argue the same protections that allow you to take the photo of the box for sale, also allow others to use copies of your photos for the same purpose.

​That gives eBay the right to display your photo, etc. where they want to..not anybody the right to do anything they want with it.  All the major sites have similar terms of use (i.e. when you upload FB photos).  Additionally, eBay has well-defined policies for image/text use (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/image-text.html):

Allowed

• Photos and text you created yourself

• All eBay product catalog photos and text

Not allowed

You're not allowed to use the following if you don't have permission from the owner, its agent, or the law:

• Photos and text from other eBay users

• Photos and text copied from websites

• Scans from catalogs or advertisements

Edited May 19, 2015 by I am Niko

[Darth_Raichu]

​It is. I get that. I am not saying you should do that. I only use my own pictures. It just isn't worth making a big deal out of it if someone does in this case. It's not worth your time.

​It is worth my time to get lazy bums from using my own pictures and listing contents to compete against me.  It is hard enough to get a sale without these lazy *** bums running around using other people's hard work for their own benefits  

[Brickson]

​Pretty sure that only works for EBAY using your photos, not other sellers.  So if EBAY suddenly went into the lego reselling business, and was selling legos through EBAY, then this would hold water and they could use any picture ever uploaded to their servers. 

I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.

​The point is, you give up the rights to the photos entirely to eBay, whether it shows up by you or someone else posting it, you gave the rights for them to display it somewhere ON EBAY. The person can't go and put it other places, for example, like their own store website. The other person isn't the one hosting the image, remember, it's eBay. So the discussion of copyright is void. eBay is removing the other listings merely to keep you happy. They don't have to do a thing. 

As far as terms, using other seller's photos, I don't see any mention there but obviously by them removing them, that implies they lean towards not allowing it without committing to it (which is good for them - imagine if someone uses your photos, sells something, then you complain, what should they do reverse the order? it gets complicated).

​That's not correct at all, and photos are copyrighted, not trademarked.  If that were true, then eBay wouldn't have to do anything if you submitted a complaint.

​It was worth my time when someone stole my photo and exact description to sell multiples of the same item I was selling last Christmas.  They were making sales off my work/time, and I was losing sales to them.

​Here we go. This is like the real reason. It's in our nature to perceive when somebody else sells something, we are losing to them, and if they used our title/photo, they are essentially stealing from us. But in reality, there was no guarantee you were getting that sale, it could have been any other number of things like location/price/recommendation/etc. and had the person put in the effort to 1-up you, maybe you would have sold even less. 

 

As far as using photos of used sets or damaged boxes, yeah that's not cool. But if they're both new boxes then I still see nothing wrong with it. Also, if it's the same new minifigure. Even a used set could look the same. The point is if the customer is essentially receiving the same thing as in the picture. And you as the person being stolen from can't really know. That's up to the person stealing to decide, and decide if they want to say it's a match and risk their reputation on it. They don't want negative feedback, so it's unlikely they're going to be misleading about it. And if they do get negative feedback, that's for eBay to deal with.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Brickson

[Darth_Raichu]

As far as terms, using other seller's photos, I don't see any mention there but obviously by them removing them, that implies they lean towards not allowing it without committing to it (which is good for them - imagine if someone uses your photos, sells something, then you complain, what should they do reverse the order? it gets complicated).

​Nope. Not leaning towards anything, they are ENFORCING their own guidelines pertaining to images: http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/image-text.html?afsrc=1&rmvSB=true

What are the guidelines?

If you're not using pictures or text from the eBay product catalog, use your own when creating a listing. If you're using someone else's photos and text, make sure the owner has authorized you to do so.

Allowed	Photos and text you created yourself All eBay product catalog photos and text
Restricted	You can use the following only if the owner, its agent, or the law has authorized you to do so: Stock photos and text Information from product packaging Measurements, weight, or other item specifications that are necessary to describe the item that you simply can't say any other way. However, avoid using any other text from product packaging unless you're authorized to do so by the owner, its agent, or the law.
Not allowed	You're not allowed to use the following if you don't have permission from the owner, its agent, or the law: Photos and text from other eBay users Photos and text copied from websites Scans from catalogs or advertisements

[I am Niko]

​The point is, you give up the rights to the photos entirely to eBay, whether it shows up by you or someone else posting it, you gave the rights for them to display it somewhere ON EBAY. The person can't go and put it other places, for example, like their own store website. The other person isn't the one hosting the image, remember, it's eBay. So the discussion of copyright is void. eBay is removing the other listings merely to keep you happy. They don't have to do a thing. 

As far as terms, using other seller's photos, I don't see any mention there but obviously by them removing them, that implies they lean towards not allowing it without committing to it (which is good for them - imagine if someone uses your photos, sells something, then you complain, what should they do reverse the order? it gets complicated).

​Here we go. This is like the real reason. It's in our nature to perceive when somebody else sells something, we are losing to them, and if they used our title/photo, they are essentially stealing from us. But in reality, there was no guarantee you were getting that sale, it could have been any other number of things like location/price/recommendation/etc. and had the person put in the effort to 1-up you, maybe you would have sold even less. 

As far as using photos of used sets or damaged boxes, yeah that's not cool. But if they're both new boxes then I still see nothing wrong with it. Also, if it's the same new minifigure. Even a used set could look the same. The point is if the customer is essentially receiving the same thing as in the picture. And you as the person being stolen from can't really know. That's up to the person stealing to decide, and decide if they want to say it's a match and risk their reputation on it. They don't want negative feedback, so it's unlikely they're going to be misleading about it. And if they do get negative feedback, that's for eBay to deal with.

​Once again, this is completely incorrect.  You are giving eBay rights to use your photo...you aren't giving other users rights to use them.  Just because another user posts it back to eBay doesn't make it okay.  When I said it gives eBay rights to put it on eBay, I meant it gives the company rights....they can show it on the listing page, they can use it in eBay ads, etc.

eBay does have to do something.  You are reporting that someone is infringing on your intellectual property rights and they are obligated to take it down, as it is illegal content hosted on their website.  Bottom line, using other sellers' photos without their explicit permission is both immoral and illegal.

Edited May 19, 2015 by I am Niko

[Brickson]

 

​Nope. Not leaning towards anything, they are ENFORCING their own guidelines pertaining to images: http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/image-text.html?afsrc=1&rmvSB=true

​I stand corrected. Thanks Darth.

Guidelines are one thing. Morals are another. And the law is another. So it definitely violates the 1st, it could violate the 2nd it really depends on the person, and I still don't believe it violates the third if somebody could please provide a source?

[jay4e]

​Once again, this is completely incorrect.  You are giving eBay rights to use your photo...you aren't giving other users rights to use them.  Just because another user posts it back to eBay doesn't make it okay.  When I said it gives eBay rights to put it on eBay, I meant it gives the company rights....they can show it on the listing page, they can use it in eBay ads, etc.

eBay does have to do something.  You are reporting that someone is infringing on your intellectual property rights and they are obligated to take it down, as it is illegal content hosted on their website.  Bottom line, using other sellers' photos is both immoral and illegal.

​

the problem is your argument falls apart at the end.  they are not legally obligated to take it down, since they have the right to use it.  Ebay it self can distribute that photo anywhere they want legally, and it is their system that is distributing the photo, not the seller.  now their ToS discourages this type of behavior, and they have customer satisfaction issues to balance.  so if they receive enough complaints they will likely take some action.  however do not expect them to have any legal obligation to do so. 

finally you are photographing a copyrighted work (the lego box), thus your copyrights in and of themselves are limited.  US copyright is pretty lenient in regards to the selling of items, but that does not extend to a general use copyright.  Thus using a copyrighted image to sell an item is mostly legal, which is why you will not be sued by lego.  however its likely legal for the other seller to do the same with your image.  

the caveat being that none of these issues, in the context of modern technologies, have ever really been fully addressed in court...

Edited May 19, 2015 by jay4e

[I am Niko]

​the problem is your argument falls apart at the end.  they are not legally obligated to take it down, since they have the right to use it.  Ebay it self can distribute that photo anywhere they want legally, and it is their system that is distributing the photo, not the seller.  now their ToS discourages this type of behavior, and they have customer satisfaction issues to balance.  so if they receive enough complaints they will likely take some action.  however do not expect them to have any legal obligation to do so. 

finally you are photographing a copyrighted work (the lego box), thus your copyrights in and of themselves are limited.  US copyright is pretty lenient in regards to the selling of items, but that does not extend to a general use copyright.  Thus using a copyrighted image to sell an item is mostly legal, which is why you will not be sued by lego.  however its likely legal for the other seller to do the same with your image.  

the caveat being that none of these issues have ever really been fully addressed in court...

​Let me explain this one more time...eBay has the right to use the photo.  If another seller uses the photo, they are the party that has infringed upon your IP and the ones making the content usage illegal.

Edited May 19, 2015 by I am Niko

[Darth_Raichu]

 

​Here we go. This is like the real reason. It's in our nature to perceive when somebody else sells something, we are losing to them, and if they used our title/photo, they are essentially stealing from us. But in reality, there was no guarantee you were getting that sale, it could have been any other number of things like location/price/recommendation/etc. and had the person put in the effort to 1-up you, maybe you would have sold even less. 

​This is not the reason at all.  Maybe the pictures generate sales, maybe not.  However, I sure did not create those pictures for someone else to potentially gains a sale out of them WITHOUT benefiting me.  Now if Brickson comes to me and says "Let me use your awesome pictures and I will give you 25% of profit from the listings sold using those pictures", then we may have a business proposition benefiting both side.

Also, I'd rather people put effort to 1 up me and make their sales. I'd congratulate them and move on to the next opportunity.

 

[mscheaf]

Let me tell you my story:

I had put up a listing for a complete set of SW Microfighters series 1. I went through a lot of trouble and it was one of the longer and more tedious listings I created. It had two pics of each set and then a pic of all 6 together. The pics had my watermark. I typed out a long description including manufacturer's description for each set, along with including all the piece counts and UPC codes. I spent a lot of time on this listing. The next day some doofus from Chicago has copied my title, my listing text and all my pics. This wasn't another Lego reseller. This was actually some guy who sold some weird items related to a group for *** members of the USMC. Now I have no problem with *** people at all, or Marines for that matter, but I really don't want my listings matching this guy's 100%. Also he had a crap feedback score. I politely asked him to remove my info from his listing and he accused me of stealing HIS images and text and said to stop harassing him or he would report me. So I called ebay and had them remove the listing. Pretty easy to tell who's listing came first.

If you think this kind of activity is OK, I wonder if you engage in it yourself? If so, please stop, you are being a giant douchenozzle.

Edited May 19, 2015 by mscheaf

[iahawks550]

My pictures have been used several times. I have no issue with it. They are just pictures. Sure, it took me five minutes to upload them, and it took them 30 seconds to steal them, but it has never affected my sales.

 

[justapilgrim]

L2 fruitcakes on ebay thread

Who is laziest, the one stealing pictures, or the one not throwing in his ebay name?

I made a little plaque out of Lego with my eBay user name, looks cool and throw it in all my photos. If I'm traveling or on the fly, there is this thing called paper and pen that I write my user name on and throw in picture

[MarleyMoose]

I really do not care if someone wants to use my photos. Have at it. Many other things to worry about.

[Agsimpson13]

I have had my images stolen numerous times and it aggravates the heck out of me.  I take the time to take high quality pictures and someone decides to steal my image...screw that.  I very impolitely TELL them they are lazy bums and to remove MY image or I will report them to Ebay...then I put them on my blocked bidder list just because. I now watermark almost everything  in Picasa Photo Editor. 

[stephen_rockefeller]

I feel that maybe some  the people who think it's not a big deal are the same people stealing photos........

[redcell]

Or maybe they're just people who look at the situation and conclude that the person who took the picture hasn't lost or been deprived of something that has any value absent the underlying asset.  After all, it's not like they could have sold the image.  I fail to see why people who sell Lego get bent out of shape about this.

[dcdfan]

Or maybe they're just people who look at the situation and conclude that the person who took the picture hasn't lost or been deprived of something that has any value absent the underlying asset.  After all, it's not like they could have sold the image.  I fail to see why people who sell Lego get bent out of shape about this.

​This issue isn't Lego exclusive, people steal pictures of almost everything. I've been dealing with this issue for more than 15 years on eBay. Even if people conclude that it's OK, maybe eBay reporting system has the option "copied pictures or text" for a reason.

[KShine]

It is rude and disrespectful at best (when someone steals your photos to use in their listings) - especially when they lie stating in the listing that the photos are of the actual item.

If I list an item (using actual photos to show its excellent condition), and they are selling a not so great condition item, using my photos, and undercutting my price - how is that harmless?

Also, if buyers see multiple listings with the same photos, both stating actual photos - it will immediately raise a red flag that could keep a potential buyer from purchasing your item (they don't know which is real - why should they take a chance).

Overall, it is pretty much a non issue - but it is not harmless.

[Agsimpson13]

Lazy selfish people shamelessly stealing other peoples time and effort and using it for their own benefit.

[stephen_rockefeller]

Lazy selfish people shamelessly stealing other peoples time and effort and using it for their own benefit.

Summed up perfectly.

[exciter1]

Lazy selfish people shamelessly stealing other peoples time and effort and using it for their own benefit.

​Great, we have some of that here too.

[iahawks550]

I feel that maybe some  the people who think it's not a big deal are the same people stealing photos........

​There are such incredibly easy ways to thwart your photos being used. Watermarks, ebay names, etc. I don't do any of these, because it just doesn't really matter to me if my picture is "stolen". It's a picture of a box. The same picture that can be found in dozens of other places on the internet.

The outrage, as someone stated earlier, is best saved for something that really matter.

[Huskers1236]

Luckily my picture taking skills are mediocre at best so my pictures are (almost) never stolen.  I find that an accurate description is just as powerful as the pictures anyway.

I had it happen once(that I know of) to a guy that purchased a 25lb ish lot from me.  He turns around and tries to flip it using my exact listing.  Needless to say I contacted him and got it taken down and he eventually changed things but it's pretty ridiculous how pathetically lazy some people are. 

[asharerin]

I really would not worry about it. I used to have scammers copy my listings exactly all the time and it did no harm. One time the scammers hotlinked my pics so I replaced them with bubba and they still sold like hotcakes because the price was right lol. It was then I realized most ebay buyers do not look at pics or read descriptions.