Detect Fake Sets / Resealing?

[mscheaf]

They need to design boxes so that once they are opened, the opened end is destroyed and never looks right again. I know I know, the 1% of people that care about box condition once it is opened will freak, but oh well. I guess whenever the price of all the returns and stolen goods gets to be too much, then they will spend the money on improving boxes. In other words, it's going to get worse before it gets better.

[Huskers1236]

They need to design boxes so that once they are opened, the opened end is destroyed and never looks right again. I know I know, the 1% of people that care about box condition once it is opened will freak, but oh well. I guess whenever the price of all the returns and stolen goods gets to be too much, then they will spend the money on improving boxes. In other words, it's going to get worse before it gets better.

​Yep, until it starts to hit the right people in the pocket book, no changes will be made. 

[Thumper]

They need to design boxes so that once they are opened, the opened end is destroyed and never looks right again. I know I know, the 1% of people that care about box condition once it is opened will freak, but oh well. I guess whenever the price of all the returns and stolen goods gets to be too much, then they will spend the money on improving boxes. In other words, it's going to get worse before it gets better.

​They once tried to do that with tearing hinges on sets like the original Arkham Asylum...  but even still you could bend the long side flap out just enough to empty the box without any noticeable damage to the hinges.

[lego rules]

To me, there is an easy solution.  Cellophane wrap them with some kind of print on the inside of the wrap to make it more expensive to counterfeit.

[gregpj]

The easiest solution would be to properly seal the damn boxes. Lego uses crappy glue on seams and those flimsy little seals are worthless.

If they glued the boxes properly (i.e. use glues that don't dry out and come apart with some heat applied) and used tamper proof seals we wouldn't ever need to worry about resealed boxes.

 

[Majkl]

Hi guys, I've got SOH and TB. Both have stickers "Lego Production Kladno" with hologram. TB it has even under one seal. Can you please tell me, what does this mean?

Edited May 15, 2015 by Majkl

[Thumper]

Kladno apparently hosts one of the main TLG production facilities in the Czech Republic. 

[Ed Mack]

Honestly, unless a LEGO set was bought directly from a source like LEGO or other retailer which would ship in a sealed LEGO shipping box, there is no way to know whether or not a set has been compromised.  I have bought thousands of sets from reputable eBay members, but I have no real way of telling if all of my sets are legit.  I can own dozens of sets that are manipulated in some way.

[Darth_Raichu]

Honestly, unless a LEGO set was bought directly from a source like LEGO or other retailer which would ship in a sealed LEGO shipping box, there is no way to know whether or not a set has been compromised.  I have bought thousands of sets from reputable eBay members, but I have no real way of telling if all of my sets are legit.  I can own dozens of sets that are manipulated in some way.

​Time to add an X-ray machine to your office ?  

[Ed Mack]

​Time to add an X-ray machine to your office ?  

​Time to start slicing open seals to see what is inside.  

[jaisonline]

​Time to start slicing open seals to see what is inside.  

Yup.  It's the only way to be 100% sure.  Sorta like taking the case back off an expensive watch to make sure it's the real deal.

[Frank Brickowski]

​Time to start slicing open seals to see what is inside.  

​Is that gallows humor emanating from the situation of having stored LEGO sets worth more than $100,000 while being either unable to tell or unwilling to find out how many of them are not legit? I brought up the problem of "invisible" contents of items sold for over $500 before - getting paid via Paypal and hence being pretty unsafe in terms of "in buyers' hands" as well as "I never knew what was really inside that box". The topic has never really been established around here while being maybe the biggest thread at all for investors. In today's "seal situation" you always have to hope for legit boxes and legit buyers. The only safe method would - as you jokingly implied, while acutally IN FACT - be to open EVERY set you buy and verify the contents yourself, maybe taking pictures. Otherwise you just don't know what's inside and you cannot even argue against a buyer claiming (rightfully or wrongfully - how can you tell?) that there were major parts missing or that there was something completely different in the box. Seems like many people here get along better by not thinking about that risk than solving the problem. However, of course, until now the whole thing seems to be much of a non-factor in the actual selling of LEGO sets. Still the issue remains imo.

Edited May 16, 2015 by rfish

[Majkl]

I have got these sets from friend who gets them as some kind of reward from TLG. Strange is that TB has Kladno sticker under one seal. It looks like it was resealed in Kladno (it also has small puncture on front). Is it possible that TLG revise their sets if box is damaged?

[GhostDad]

Ebay will always force a return if a buyer says there was a piece missing, or the box was filled with gravel instead of lego pieces, or whatever.  You cannot prevent that with photos of the contents or any other form of due diligence.  This is what eBay calls 'no hassle returns'.  I am not a fan of the process, but that's how it works.

PayPal is somewhat better in the implementation, if not the letter of their policy.  eBay gives buyers 30 days after receipt to file a claim.  PayPal gives them 180 days after payment is made.  However, in practice PayPal is much more willing to work with the seller and listen to reason.  eBay automatically assumes seller guilt and forces the seller to pay for return shipping, for example.  PayPal makes the buyer pay.  This makes PayPal a much less appealing route for a buyer of a large, heavy set who just changed his mind and falsified an 'item not as described' claim to force a return.  Also, if you call eBay, you will get a call center in India with minimally helpful employees.  If you call PayPal, you will get an American who speaks fluent English and will generally engage in productive conversation.

At the end of the day, however, we are all depending on the honesty of our buyers.  I worry far more about a spurious claim that a set is full of rocks or puzzle pieces, than I do about a legitimate claim alleging the same.

[Frank Brickowski]

I worry far more about a spurious claim that a set is full of rocks or puzzle pieces, than I do about a legitimate claim alleging the same.

Why is that so? ​You cannot tell the difference anyway because you don't know what really is inside that box you sold. For me it would be nice to be sure about the contents at least for myself. But unless you open all sets you cannot even guess if a claim is right or wrong.

Edited May 16, 2015 by rfish
change

[Ed Mack]

There is going to be a point in time at which a retired set that has been opened and verified as complete will be worth more than a supposed MISB set.

[GhostDad]

Well, my experience is that claimants usually have very low or 0 feedback and communicate in stream of consciousness, misspelled words with no punctuation.  A standard 'not as described' claim reads like this:

"pieces missing very disappointed give money back"

*Note that my tablet wouldn't allow me to insert the desired misspellings.

When I receive a message like that, my respect for the buyer pretty much drops through the floor.  I think, 'Is he the 1/10,000 customer who gets the set that really is missing pieces, or is he trying to pull a fast one on me?'

[Frank Brickowski]

Well, my experience is that claimants usually have very low or 0 feedback and communicate in stream of consciousness, misspelled words with no punctuation.  A standard 'not as described' claim reads like this:

"pieces missing very disappointed give money back"

*Note that my tablet wouldn't allow me to insert the desired misspellings.

When I receive a message like that, my respect for the buyer pretty much drops through the floor.  I think, 'Is he the 1/10,000 customer who gets the set that really is missing pieces, or is he trying to pull a fast one on me?'

​Alright, so your statment on worrying about more and less likeable claimants was a socialogical one, while I thought your remarkt was business-related. Now I understand what you mean. But the business problem of not really knowing what you sell remains.

[Frank Brickowski]

There is going to be a point in time at which a retired set that has been opened and verified as complete will be worth more than a supposed MISB set.

​"a point in time"? what are you referring to? And why is this "point in time" in the future and not RIGHT NOW?

anyway, if investors don't open sets to check them right away, opening them years later is gonna hurt even more - if they are indeed compromised

Edited May 16, 2015 by rfish
addition

[jaisonline]

There is going to be a point in time at which a retired set that has been opened and verified as complete will be worth more than a supposed MISB set.

Unless AFA grading begins mainstream :(

[Frank Brickowski]

Unless AFA grading begins mainstream

​How are they supposed to certify MISB contents that cannot be seen? You can't grade what you can't see.

[jaisonline]

​How are they supposed to certify MISB contents that cannot be seen? You can't grade what you can't see.

When did that ever stop AFA? :(

[exciter1]

There is going to be a point in time at which a retired set that has been opened and verified as complete will be worth more than a supposed MISB set.

​That's how I advertise mine. "Opened, verified 100% Complete, then resealed".  Elmer's Glue All works wonders.

[Frank Brickowski]

What are sellers' experiences price-wise comparing "seals opened & verified contents" vs. "sealed"?

[GhostDad]

I think opened and/or seriously damaged boxes take 5 - 10% off what you would get for a MISB set.  Add in the time it takes to verify completeness after opening the set, and that's why I don't do it.