Val-E Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I think the point is that no matter what the method of payment, selling an expensive item on Ebay has certain fraud risks that are completely out of your control.What are the fraud risks of payment by bank transfer apart from a third party knowing your account details? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearCrash Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 What are the fraud risks of payment by bank transfer apart from a third party knowing your account details? Why do you consider a third party knowing your bank account number a risk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lego_Monsters Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Why do you consider a third party knowing your bank account number a risk?I think he fears them withdrawing money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearCrash Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I think he fears them withdrawing money.You can't just go and withdraw money from a bank account if the only thing you have is an account number... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val-E Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 You can't just go and withdraw money from a bank account if the only thing you have is an account number...There are some nasty things you can do with just an account and a name but nothing as nasty as what Paypal can do! Is there any real fraud risk of accepting bank transfer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iahawks550 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 No, I'm not fearful of fraud with Paypal, or of Ebay in general. But, this is what I am fearful of when selling a high dollar item On EBAY 1. Buyer says item not as described, returns it, and it's damaged in return2. Buyer open up box, says parts (figs) are missing, returns it3. Package is damaged in original shipping, buyer returnsBy paying with Paypal, they have two avenues in which to dispute. With a high dollar item, the risk is much, much higher. With a CL deal, there is virtually no risk (assuming you aren't scared of being robbed for a Lego set) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshot Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 As a seller what can you do to prevent this. Would taking pics of the set prior to shipping be enough to prove the condition when you mailed it? Ive seen some sellers state no returns or refunds in the ad. Does this even hold up with Ebay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregpj Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 As a seller what can you do to prevent this. Would taking pics of the set prior to shipping be enough to prove the condition when you mailed it? Ive seen some sellers state no returns or refunds in the ad. Does this even hold up with Ebay?No because you could take a picture of a nice box and ship them something different. Pictures prove nothing.You can refuse returns but you can't refuse a SNAD case. If the buyer asks to return something "because they no longer want it" or "they found it cheaper somewhere else" for example, I could refuse a return because my listing says no returns. However, if the buyer opens a SNAD case because it was damaged or wrong or missing parts (whether the claim is real or not), you can't refuse it. You can dispute it but it's unlikely eBay will rule in your favor. If you lose the SNAD you also have to pay for return shipping.If you accept the return (even if you say you don't) you can force the buyer to pay for the return shipping. If you don't get it back in the same condition, you can try to withhold some of the selling price as a "restocking fee" but eBay may or may not support that if the buyer contests it.Best thing to do? Sell at high enough prices to know every now and then you'll encounter a situation where you lose a few bucks since disputing a buyer's claims is more hassle than it's worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegoEdison Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Why do you consider a third party knowing your bank account number a risk?Scammer can make a fake check using your account number and name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deez_Brickz Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 No, I'm not fearful of fraud with Paypal, or of Ebay in general. But, this is what I am fearful of when selling a high dollar item On EBAY 1. Buyer says item not as described, returns it, and it's damaged in return2. Buyer open up box, says parts (figs) are missing, returns it3. Package is damaged in original shipping, buyer returnsBy paying with Paypal, they have two avenues in which to dispute. With a high dollar item, the risk is much, much higher. With a CL deal, there is virtually no risk (assuming you aren't scared of being robbed for a Lego set) People afraid of selling a $1k SSD on eBay need to realize that a lot of expensive things get sold on eBay all day long (watches, jewelry, coins, etc). There are things you can do to protect yourself as a seller, and it is the seller's responsibility to know the rules of the selling platform that apply to seller protections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshot Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 No because you could take a picture of a nice box and ship them something different. Pictures prove nothing.You can refuse returns but you can't refuse a SNAD case. If the buyer asks to return something "because they no longer want it" or "they found it cheaper somewhere else" for example, I could refuse a return because my listing says no returns. However, if the buyer opens a SNAD case because it was damaged or wrong or missing parts (whether the claim is real or not), you can't refuse it. You can dispute it but it's unlikely eBay will rule in your favor. If you lose the SNAD you also have to pay for return shipping.If you accept the return (even if you say you don't) you can force the buyer to pay for the return shipping. If you don't get it back in the same condition, you can try to withhold some of the selling price as a "restocking fee" but eBay may or may not support that if the buyer contests it.Best thing to do? Sell at high enough prices to know every now and then you'll encounter a situation where you lose a few bucks since disputing a buyer's claims is more hassle than it's worth.Gotta say the kinda blows........... Must be some way to protect yourself from people buying a DS and stripping out say all the figs and then sending it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iahawks550 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 People afraid of selling a $1k SSD on eBay need to realize that a lot of expensive things get sold on eBay all day long (watches, jewelry, coins, etc). There are things you can do to protect yourself as a seller, and it is the seller's responsibility to know the rules of the selling platform that apply to seller protections.I would like to know more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregpj Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Gotta say the kinda blows........... Must be some way to protect yourself from people buying a DS and stripping out say all the figs and then sending it back.Sell it locally in person for cash is your best bet.Some folks have bought stickers with unique serial numbers and added their own seals but that still isn't enough since the buyer can claim you sent him a diff serial number or that they were already missing after they opened it - and who's to say they weren't?The reality is that getting scammed by a buyer makes up a very, very small percentage of buyers on eBay. People tend to worry about something they can't control.... ship good products that are packaged properly with proper insurance and tracking (don't be afraid of signature confirmation for those really expensive items). That's about as good as it gets and the reality is the chance of getting scammed is so low is it worth worrying about every time you sell something? Not to me... but I admit, it does suck when it happens. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deez_Brickz Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I would like to know more.You can select the appropriate shipping carrier, insurance, and signature confirmation depending on the value of the item you are shipping. I have read many stories where someone made a slight deviation from the requirements of the selling platform and they end up with no support or coverage. Also, follow the rules of whatever insurance service you are using. As a seller, you are responsible for ensuring that the item gets to the buyer. There will be lost packages, stolen packages, damages, and dishonest buyers. If you sell long enough you will run into everything. Your selling/business plan needs to take into account some % of loss or refund. Depending on your risk-tolerance you can spend money to insure or not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val-E Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Yay we derailed the thread!The 599 SSD sold for 633 plus shipping in the end. Reasonable price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mudcatsfan Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 You can select the appropriate shipping carrier, insurance, and signature confirmation depending on the value of the item you are shipping. I have read many stories where someone made a slight deviation from the requirements of the selling platform and they end up with no support or coverage. Also, follow the rules of whatever insurance service you are using. As a seller, you are responsible for ensuring that the item gets to the buyer. There will be lost packages, stolen packages, damages, and dishonest buyers. If you sell long enough you will run into everything. Your selling/business plan needs to take into account some % of loss or refund. Depending on your risk-tolerance you can spend money to insure or not. I think the point was that at some price points you begin to enter the realm where a scammer will intentionally target your item because it becomes 'worth their time'.Over the course of selling 1000 items, you might have 5 deals go wrong, but if those 5 deals are the most expensive items you sell (like $1000 SSD's) then it's not something you can just shrug off like a Raptor Escape being lost or returned SNAD.I think it's worth bringing up the points you did to help our community protect themselves when dealing with the much higher end items. Thanks for sharing it. If anyone has other ideas, we should collect them in a topic "Selling High Price Lego - Protecting yourself" or something like that. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenxxx Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I tried the extra sticker / serial number idea, but found the stickers I bought could easily be removed. One of my bigger worries right now is selling current sets that are pricey because they are TOOS, or "unknown" if they're coming back (like 10188 or 75920). If I sell a JW I-Rex for $220, I don't want the buyer finding it at Walmart two weeks later at $99, buying that one and shipping it back to me for a refund. This photo shows one "trick" I've been trying lately for some of my high dollar sales. The picture includes the actual set and the actual packing slip for the sale. If the buyer were to return a different set, I should be able to tell. Selling only a few items per month like this, it's not a big deal to do. Of course, getting Amazon to take my side in a dispute like this could be another challenge. But it helps me sleep at night. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshot Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Insurance from the shipper (USPS, UPS or fedX) covers lost or stolen packages Im sure, but what about damaged packaging? A set that left mint and arrived pancaked or dropped on one corner isnt worth as much. Who is responsible for figuring out what the difference is if the buyer complains or returns it because of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshot Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 I tried the extra sticker / serial number idea, but found the stickers I bought could easily be removed. One of my bigger worries right now is selling current sets that are pricey because they are TOOS, or "unknown" if they're coming back (like 10188 or 75920). If I sell a JW I-Rex for $220, I don't want the buyer finding it at Walmart two weeks later at $99, buying that one and shipping it back to me for a refund. This photo shows one "trick" I've been trying lately for some of my high dollar sales. The picture includes the actual set and the actual packing slip for the sale. If the buyer were to return a different set, I should be able to tell. Selling only a few items per month like this, it's not a big deal to do. Of course, getting Amazon to take my side in a dispute like this could be another challenge. But it helps me sleep at night.Not for nothing but as a collector as well Id be pissed if you wrote marker on a set you sent me. I get the point of it but a sticker with the same thing especially if they dont know its there would work and is removable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenxxx Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Not for nothing but as a collector as well Id be pissed if you wrote marker on a set you sent me. I get the point of it but a sticker with the same thing especially if they dont know its there would work and is removable.Well, if a collector wants to return a purchase because of this marking on an inside flap, then I'll be happy to take it back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longshot Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Well, if a collector wants to return a purchase because of this marking on an inside flap, then I'll be happy to take it back.The chances of them seeing it would be minimal anyway, especially if they don't open it. And if they do open it its a moot point anyway. Just as long as it doesn't warp or crease the flap when ya write it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hannibal Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 isn't it all a bit contradictive?first ....oh come on, can't wait till this set reaches, OMG this is amazing, this set is worth $$$$$$$$then...oh my, what if the buyer returns it? Or what if a,b,c,d ....you can't have the cake and eat it at the end of the day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharky1999 Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Sell it locally in person for cash is your best bet.Except for when you get mugged or something which happens from time to time with Craigslist on items even less expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No More Monkeys Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 isn't it all a bit contradictive?first ....oh come on, can't wait till this set reaches, OMG this is amazing, this set is worth $$$$$$$$then...oh my, what if the buyer returns it? Or what if a,b,c,d ....you can't have the cake and eat it at the end of the dayyou can if it is Schrodinger Cake! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregpj Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Except for when you get mugged or something which happens from time to time with Craigslist on items even less expensive.If you're worried about it, meet in a public place or near a police station. The chances of it happening are still slim... Yeesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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