Selling Lego on Amazon.com

[Mark Twain]

Stay tuned for tomorrow’s reveal

This sucks and I hope we have some clarity but I doubt it. If you Google “Vorys letter” the internet is full of examples of this happening to 3p sellers, so I don’t think it is a new phenomenon and it is likely that Lego just got added to their list of brands they’re going after.


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[Bricklectic]

Seems like they wont actually pursur you in a court of law but i am seeing some examples in forums where they can tell amazon to suspend you. in other instances I see the recepient ignored letter and was still able to sell.

[joch29]

did a quick search on VORYS and found these..

vorys ...first sale doctrine

and this from law firm (same as the video above) on a LEGO claim.

Rosenbaum, Famularo & Segall P.C.

 

 

Edited December 17, 2021 by joch29

[redcell]

48 minutes ago, LegoBro said:

Damm ...does it really end this way? 

It all depends on how far LEGO is planning to take this campaign, but these letters could be the canaries in the coal mine.

[brickology101]

did a quick search on VORYS and found these..

and this from law firm (same as the video above) on a LEGO claim.
Rosenbaum, Famularo & Segall P.C.
 
 

Yes saw that too and took some comfort from it but their reviews are not that great. So. Dunno if they are rally trustable or not ?


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[brickology101]

Yes saw that too and took some comfort from it but their reviews are not that great. So. Dunno if they are rally trustable or not ?


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And seems like they are going to get really busy soon.


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[redcell]

7 minutes ago, joch29 said:

did a quick search on VORYS and found these..

vorys ...first sale doctrine

and this from law firm (same as the video above) on a LEGO claim.

Rosenbaum, Famularo & Segall P.C.

 

 

The situation the Rosenbaum law firm is talking about is very different from the strategy that Vorys is pursuing.  If someone is targeted by Vorys and their legal theory holds up, it doesn't matter if they purchased the product from an authorized LEGO dealer...the fact that they themselves aren't an authorized dealer is the problem they face.  This may all seem like a bunch of BS and I suspect that there are judges out there who wouldn't buy what Vorys is selling, but I wouldn't be dismissive of the approach they're taking.  I've spent quite a bit of time over my career litigating cases in federal court and can easily see many courts siding with LEGO in a case like this.   

[joch29]

8 minutes ago, brickology101 said:

Yes saw that too and took some comfort from it but their reviews are not that great. So. Dunno if they are rally trustable or not ?


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good reviews on google..

[gmpirate]

2 hours ago, Bold-Arrow said:

Well I’m screwed. Got this lovely message from FedEx 

How did you receive a message from Fedex that a package is coming?  I've never received a message like that.  Packages just show up.

[Bold-Arrow]

Just now, gmpirate said:

How did you receive a message from Fedex that a package is coming?  I've never received a message like that.  Packages just show up.

I have a FedEx account 

[gmpirate]

7 minutes ago, Bold-Arrow said:

I have a FedEx account 

Guess I just never received a package when I had an account . . .

[Bold-Arrow]

Just now, gmpirate said:

Guess I just never received a package when I had an account . . .

It is the same thing for UPS . They both do that. It helps knowing what you are getting ( not in this case I guess ) 

[Mark Twain]

15 minutes ago, redcell said:

The situation the Rosenbaum law firm is talking about is very different from the strategy that Vorys is pursuing.  If someone is targeted by Vorys and their legal theory holds up, it doesn't matter if they purchased the product from an authorized LEGO dealer...the fact that they themselves aren't an authorized dealer is the problem they face.  This may all seem like a bunch of BS and I suspect that there are judges out there who wouldn't buy what Vorys is selling, but I wouldn't be dismissive of the approach they're taking.  I've spent quite a bit of time over my career litigating cases in federal court and can easily see many courts siding with LEGO in a case like this.   

Very true, but still, the Bricklink thing makes me wonder. If the brand, in this case Lego, owns and operates a marketplace run exclusively by 3P sellers to sell their products in new and used conditions, doesn't that by definition mean that they have given 3p sellers authorization to sell their product on the internet and make the majority of their argument moot? Anyone with a bank account can open such a store on Lego's marketplace and Lego charges and collects fees for this reselling, would this not qualify as an authorized reseller of their product? Also, how can they possibly enforce QC standards when they allow the sale of new and used versions of their products on said marketplace?

[pharmjod]

7 minutes ago, Mark Twain said:

Very true, but still, the Bricklink thing makes me wonder. If the brand, in this case Lego, owns and operates a marketplace run exclusively by 3P sellers to sell their products in new and used conditions, doesn't that by definition mean that they have given 3p sellers authorization to sell their product on the internet and make the majority of their argument moot? Anyone with a bank account can open such a store on Lego's marketplace and Lego charges and collects fees for this reselling, would this not qualify as an authorized reseller of their product? Also, how can they possibly enforce QC standards when they allow the sale of new and used versions of their products on said marketplace?

All of this. I am not an attorney but it would seem even a bad attorney could argue this and get any case thrown out. I don't see how LEGO can even pursue this with a straight face given that they own Bricklink. 

[gmpirate]

19 minutes ago, Bold-Arrow said:

It is the same thing for UPS . They both do that. It helps knowing what you are getting ( not in this case I guess ) 

Maybe I'm not special, I don't get notices from UPS either and I actively use the account.

5 minutes ago, pharmjod said:

All of this. I am not an attorney but it would seem even a bad attorney could argue this and get any case thrown out. I don't see how LEGO can even pursue this with a straight face given that they own Bricklink. 

Yep, just call Vinny!

[jbacunn]

6 minutes ago, pharmjod said:

All of this. I am not an attorney but it would seem even a bad attorney could argue this and get any case thrown out. I don't see how LEGO can even pursue this with a straight face given that they own Bricklink. 

Here's a crazy idea. Maybe Lego is doing this to drive more sellers to Bricklink where they can get a cut of all this money that Amazon is making off their products being resold. I haven't sold anything on Bricklink in 5 years but I'm sure as hell thinking more about it now. 

[Emvisawthatswho]

Well I’m screwed. Got this lovely message from FedEx 
http://bp-forum.s3.amazonaws.com/monthly_2021_12/20B95367-A168-420C-845A-9C29268CF97C.thumb.jpeg.0ab2b7a9cd9e39b3986feed02ea0c236.jpeg

Are you selling anything other than Lego? What is your sales volume on Amazon? Wondering if this is “random” or if Lego (or other brand owners) is targeting certain accounts.


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[river41]

23 minutes ago, pharmjod said:

All of this. I am not an attorney but it would seem even a bad attorney could argue this and get any case thrown out. I don't see how LEGO can even pursue this with a straight face given that they own Bricklink. 

The question is what is Legos ultimate end goal and what are they prepared to do to get there.

Lego targets adults also and not just children. They have sets targeted to adults that sell for hundreds of dollars each. For at least a element of the lego collectors it is important to them that they perceive their purchases as retaining and adding value and therefore makes it easier for them to spend so much money on this hobby. If there would be no resale venue for lego you would think that at least to some extent it would hurt their brand value as it wouldn't retain the same cachet to people that their hobby rose in value. Having said that this year was clearly out of control when so many of the popular sets were unavailable to buy at retail and that also hurts the brand. People want the opportunity to buy the product at retail and for this season to a large degree for popular items they were unable to.  

 

As far as what will lego do ,to send a cease and desist letter is one step and to actually sue someone is a whole other ball game. I would assume that for many people the threat of  a law suit would be enough to get them to stop reselling .There are many brands that use this or other law firms to send letters and have been doing so for years and have never sued anybody. I know somebody that has gotten a  letter every month for 2 years and is still selling that brand . However you need strong nerves for that and just the threat of a lawsuit is enough for many people. For the major sellers on amazon like tp etc. I would assume that a letter would not be enough. The main question is would the culling of the herd via letters be enough for lego or are they prepared to sue which they probably will have to do if they totally want to shut down reselling 

 

 

[river41]

3 hours ago, Bold-Arrow said:

Well I’m screwed. Got this lovely message from FedEx 

is the letter coming to the address on your amazon display name and address

also did you order multiples of the bricklink designer sets -is that something that put people on their radar

[Bold-Arrow]

29 minutes ago, Emvisawthatswho said:

Are you selling anything other than Lego? What is your sales volume on Amazon? Wondering if this is “random” or if Lego (or other brand owners) is targeting certain accounts.


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I do very good , there are few zeros behind  that one however I do sell a plethora of brands and  sales wise Lego is a small chunk of that number . It might very well not be Lego , however Lego is the only brand I don’t have authorization to sell . 
 

 

15 minutes ago, river41 said:

is the letter coming to the address on your amazon display name and address

also did you order multiples of the bricklink designer sets -is that something that put people on their radar

no to address and name , and no to BL , just one of each for me 

[landphieran]

I'd guess these are coming out to a lot of people. I'm not entirely convinced this is driven by LEGO at this point. I'm leaning towards an authorized selling third party looking to eliminate competition.

Edited December 17, 2021 by landphieran

[Bricklectic]

Maybe we should make a brickpickr gofundme page.. i really feel like they dont have  the right to disallow sales of lego. However that may be a moot point as there really are 2 issues at hand here. One is the core issues raised in the letter, namely, Lego does not want ANY unathorized resellers selling lego on ANY platform and they are claiming firs sales doctrine doesnt apply. They may or may not be correct about this. 

However, there is a second issue that is probably the more relevant one and that is the tenuos ability to sell lego on amazon.com specifically. As we know amazon is not a court of law, and they can instantly gate or restrict accounts from selling lego. If lego/vorys contacts them and lets them know of their opposition to seller x/y/z, first sales doctrine nonwithstanding, they can easily shut you down. 

I feel like issue #2 may be the more problematic one as its harder to fight

[Bold-Arrow]

4 minutes ago, Bricklectic said:

Maybe we should make a brickpickr gofundme page.. i really feel like they dont have  the right to disallow sales of lego. However that may be a moot point as there really are 2 issues at hand here. One is the core issues raised in the letter, namely, Lego does not want ANY unathorized resellers selling lego on ANY platform and they are claiming firs sales doctrine doesnt apply. They may or may not be correct about this. 

However, there is a second issue that is probably the more relevant one and that is the tenuos ability to sell lego on amazon.com specifically. As we know amazon is not a court of law, and they can instantly gate or restrict accounts from selling lego. If lego/vorys contacts them and lets them know of their opposition to seller x/y/z, first sales doctrine nonwithstanding, they can easily shut you down. 

I feel like issue #2 may be the more problematic one as its harder to fight

Red cell should give us the reseller scum discount and we can hire him  

[yyyybird]

13 minutes ago, Bold-Arrow said:

I do very good , there are few zeros behind  that one however I do sell a plethora of brands and  sales wise Lego is a small chunk of that number . It might very well not be Lego , however Lego is the only brand I don’t have authorization to sell . 
 

 

no to address and name , and no to BL , just one of each for me 

you mean the letter is not addressed to the business address on your amazon store front page?

[Bold-Arrow]

1 minute ago, yyyybird said:

you mean the letter is not addressed to the business address on your amazon store front page?

Correct