Selling Lego on Amazon.com

[Achilles]

5 hours ago, landphieran said:

I know this is a common complaint most years (usually i'm on the opposite side) however I feel like selling this year has been particularly brutal. I mainly say this as a comparison to last year. My margins last year were 20-30% more than this year. Prices drove up and continued driving up throughout the selling season.

 

The restock limits and time it's taking for things to process is going to make this impossible for me to really compare to previous years. My prices and sales more or less seem similar to what I expected, but my volume is going to be way down and I'm going to have to stretch it into Jan and beyond, and who knows if that will crush the pricing I was planning on getting. Very frustrating all around.

 

4 minutes ago, Phil B said:

I sent in my 75929 when the going rate was $159.99. It's $128 right now thanks to Toy Planet. SMH. 

 

And I hate having any listing that shares with ToyPlanet. Often if I see they have the item in stock, I'll simply hold it until they are out. Like Phil mentioned, I had some of my best prices in mid November, but obviously not the volume.

 

I hope/can't help but feel flippers and new folks at this are going to be discouraged. Like, 300+ sellers on that Boos set. 150+ sellers on the Target Black Friday items, etc. If people were hoping to flip these from $35 to $60 sales, not a whole lot of meat on the bone, and everyone has to sell their items. Just means I have to spread out more, and try to avoid some of those sets. Not to mention Amazon keeping things in stock at MSRP for over a year past retirement in some cases.

I also think LEGO is lowering the prices on some of the new larger sets in an attempt to combat reselling on some level. Some of these $100 sets now would have been $120 or more a couple years ago, which doesn't make a ton of sense.

As always, the only thing that's constant is that nothing is constant, and having to adjust. I really was smacked in the face by the Restock limits this season however.

 

[Dark Helmet]

8 minutes ago, Phil B said:

 

Even though I typically only send in sets that have retired for at least 2 years, even those struggle at the moment. Just went in and did a massive "match the buybox" adjustment - luckily that immediately resulted in several sales, but at a lower price point than where I had hoped to sell based on where prices were over the summer. Glad I sold a bunch in September before the mad holiday rush started. I hope January will be better.

FYI Watch out from just matching buybox. I have notice I have had the buy box and it recommended me to lower my price 

[Phil B]

2 minutes ago, Dark Helmet said:

FYI Watch out from just matching buybox. I have notice I have had the buy box and it recommended me to lower my price 

The one thing I have over a lot of other sellers is patience and time  I am already totally in the black on my investments, so I can wait

[Bold-Arrow]

I think joe complained to Lego 

[Darth_Raichu]

8 minutes ago, Bold-Arrow said:

I think joe complained to Lego 

 

Nah.  My money is on one of those people who asked inane questions like: "Have you ever been in love?"

[redcell]

31 minutes ago, Achilles said:

As always, the only thing that's constant is that nothing is constant, and having to adjust. I really was smacked in the face by the Restock limits this season however.

 

I'm glad that I downsized earlier in the year.  The restock limits have really sucked, but at least last year was so good that it gave me plenty of padding to reset things this year.  2022 is already looking to be pretty good based on where the prices of some retiring sets are already.

[pharmjod]

The return of Toycentric / bird-e has also not helped things. That a s s h o l e artificially keeps prices down. Which is easy to do when you're dropshipping from eBay and taking zero risk yourself to purchase, store and list product. I really hope Amazon gives him the boot again more quickly than they did last time. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by pharmjod

[cladner]

28 minutes ago, pharmjod said:

The return of Toycentric / bird-e has also not helped things. That a s s h o l e artificially keeps prices down. Which is easy to do when you're dropshipping from eBay and taking zero risk yourself to purchase, store and list product. I really hope Amazon gives him the boot again more quickly than they did last time. 

its the other idiot sellers price matching bird-e that actually drop the price - but i 100% agree with you bird e secondarily keep prices down when out of the loop dumba$$ fba sellers are price matching bird-e dropshipping crap. annoyingaf

 

Edited December 12, 2021 by cladner

[gmpirate]

56 minutes ago, Bold-Arrow said:

I think joe complained to Lego 

I just tell them I agree.  I'd never pay that much either.

[407brianb8872]

1 hour ago, redcell said:

I'm glad that I downsized earlier in the year.  The restock limits have really sucked, but at least last year was so good that it gave me plenty of padding to reset things this year.  2022 is already looking to be pretty good based on where the prices of some retiring sets are already.

Been selling for 13 years, and the glory days are firmly over. Amazon opened the LEGO gate wide open this season and the sellers are insanely high now on listings. Sets that go on deep discounts will no longer be easy money in one or two years. We have to adjust, but more sets that almost never go on sale. Avoid the big sets because of the massive increasing return fraud we are seeing.  Duplo, Disney, Ninjago, and Minecraft (nothing new there) will be heavy hitters moving forward. Bird-E needs to be reported by everyone for his dropshipping, he is toxic. 

Edited December 12, 2021 by 407brianb8872

[TheBrickClique]

Well, if we can pay 5x for gas compared to four years ago, why not LEGO that is essentially another petroleum product?  Basic inflation. 

[Bricklectic]

Here is some screenshots from the letter sorry for the slant, also i only selected certain parts so as not to include his biz name (im bad at redacting things). Essentially they are claiming first sales doctrine doesnt apply based on shell oil precedent. which seems like rubbish because you can claim quality controls are part of EVERY SINGLE product in the world. Oil needs controls. Lego is lego. (although i guess it is oil lol). 

[Mark Twain]

Here is some screenshots from the letter sorry for the slant, also i only selected certain parts so as not to include his biz name (im bad at redacting things). Essentially they are claiming first sales doctrine doesnt apply based on shell oil precedent. which seems like rubbish because you can claim quality controls are part of EVERY SINGLE product in the world. Oil needs controls. Lego is lego. (although i guess it is oil lol). 
http://bp-forum.s3.amazonaws.com/monthly_2021_12/image.png.5c0db86b8c92614145d9f83873b0af30.png
http://bp-forum.s3.amazonaws.com/monthly_2021_12/image.png.11768da406b732314c17eaabe5bde8e0.png
http://bp-forum.s3.amazonaws.com/monthly_2021_12/image.png.0792ff2cac4710fc1ace8862e2b3e202.png
http://bp-forum.s3.amazonaws.com/monthly_2021_12/image.png.66df970403b645d44bf9550df5c7c83e.png
http://bp-forum.s3.amazonaws.com/monthly_2021_12/image.png.b3033418fe376942ba9a45a20684a1b6.png
http://bp-forum.s3.amazonaws.com/monthly_2021_12/image.png.91125a551791f409db36ff579d2f144a.png
http://bp-forum.s3.amazonaws.com/monthly_2021_12/image.thumb.png.1dd70f79d6d477e8b0441a8995d3fd05.png

Asking him to remove all Lego products from Amazon and any other website is ridiculous since Lego allows resellers of new and used products on its own 3p marketplace, BrickLink.


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[Bricklectic]

8 minutes ago, Mark Twain said:

Asking him to remove all Lego products from Amazon and any other website is ridiculous since Lego allows resellers of new and used products on its own 3p marketplace, BrickLink.


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solid point!

[redcell]

That letter is consistent with the arguments that they've made on behalf of other manufacturers in court.  It remains to be seen whether TLG wants to put this theory of trademark infringement to the test on its products or whether it is simply doing this to scare some segment of the reseller population into backing off, but I wouldn't dismiss this letter as a black-hat tactic. 

I will say, though, that the law firm missed out on the opportunity to turn up the a-holeishness of the letter to 11 by sending it a week later and demanding a response no later than 5pm on 12/24.

[brickology101]

Here is some screenshots from the letter sorry for the slant, also i only selected certain parts so as not to include his biz name (im bad at redacting things). Essentially they are claiming first sales doctrine doesnt apply based on shell oil precedent. which seems like rubbish because you can claim quality controls are part of EVERY SINGLE product in the world. Oil needs controls. Lego is lego. (although i guess it is oil lol). 
http://bp-forum.s3.amazonaws.com/monthly_2021_12/image.png.5c0db86b8c92614145d9f83873b0af30.png
http://bp-forum.s3.amazonaws.com/monthly_2021_12/image.png.11768da406b732314c17eaabe5bde8e0.png
http://bp-forum.s3.amazonaws.com/monthly_2021_12/image.png.0792ff2cac4710fc1ace8862e2b3e202.png
http://bp-forum.s3.amazonaws.com/monthly_2021_12/image.png.66df970403b645d44bf9550df5c7c83e.png
http://bp-forum.s3.amazonaws.com/monthly_2021_12/image.png.b3033418fe376942ba9a45a20684a1b6.png
http://bp-forum.s3.amazonaws.com/monthly_2021_12/image.png.91125a551791f409db36ff579d2f144a.png
http://bp-forum.s3.amazonaws.com/monthly_2021_12/image.thumb.png.1dd70f79d6d477e8b0441a8995d3fd05.png

The person who received this C&D letter should contact an attorney in order to properly respond to it. That person should be able to find online references for lawyers who are specialized in trademarking and copyrighting and who have experience defending Amazon sellers against such practices. No matter how outrageous the claims look like in this letter unfortunately they come from a legitimate lawyer firm hence there is a real risk of a lawsuit.


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[redcell]

1 hour ago, Bricklectic said:

Here is some screenshots from the letter sorry for the slant, also i only selected certain parts so as not to include his biz name (im bad at redacting things). Essentially they are claiming first sales doctrine doesnt apply based on shell oil precedent. which seems like rubbish because you can claim quality controls are part of EVERY SINGLE product in the world. Oil needs controls. Lego is lego. (although i guess it is oil lol). 

 

So what can you tell us about the recipient's business?  How large of an operation are they running?  Are they quick-flipping new sets or reselling older retired sets?  How long have they been selling?  Do they sell throughout the year or only sporadically (i.e., primarily Q4)?  What kind of volume are they pushing through Amazon in either units or dollars or both?  I'm just curious what caused this person to bubble up and get the letter now versus others.

One last question...any chance the person that received the letter lives in Colorado?

[Bricklectic]

1 minute ago, redcell said:

So what can you tell us about the recipient's business?  How large of an operation are they running?  Are they quick-flipping new sets or reselling older retired sets?  How long have they been selling?  Do they sell throughout the year or only sporadically (i.e., primarily Q4)?  What kind of volume are they pushing through Amazon in either units or dollars or both?  I'm just curious what caused this person to bubble up and get the letter now versus others.

One last question...any chance the person that received the letter lives in Colorado?

not Colorado. Their biz model is mostly quick flipping. small fish. I dont see a clear reason why they would pursue one random guy, There must be over 1k sellers of lego on amazon and its easy peezy lemon squeezy for this ambulance chaser law firm to simply look them up and send letters willy nilly. its really odd.

Their argument and precedent they quote from shell is really slimy though. Sickens me that they twist logic just to chase small time sellers. apparently they do this for many brands per my quick google search.

[jbacunn]

9 minutes ago, Bricklectic said:

not Colorado. Their biz model is mostly quick flipping. small fish. I dont see a clear reason why they would pursue one random guy, There must be over 1k sellers of lego on amazon and its easy peezy lemon squeezy for this ambulance chaser law firm to simply look them up and send letters willy nilly. its really odd.

Their argument and precedent they quote from shell is really slimy though. Sickens me that they twist logic just to chase small time sellers. apparently they do this for many brands per my quick google search.

Maybe they target small timers because they believe they are more likely to be scared off by a letter like this rather than fight it. A large reseller would have too much invested to stop without consulting with a lawyer and fighting it. 

 

It is a good point about Bricklink. I would love to hear their explanation as to why we can't sell on a site that is owned by Lego and obviously allows reselling. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by jbacunn

[redcell]

not Colorado. Their biz model is mostly quick flipping. small fish. I dont see a clear reason why they would pursue one random guy, There must be over 1k sellers of lego on amazon and its easy peezy lemon squeezy for this ambulance chaser law firm to simply look them up and send letters willy nilly. its really odd.
Their argument and precedent they quote from shell is really slimy though. Sickens me that they twist logic just to chase small time sellers. apparently they do this for many brands per my quick google search.

We should find out rather quickly whether this was an isolated instance or the leading edge of something broader. Colorado would have made sense because that's where Vorys got a good ruling for another client along these lines.

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[brickology101]

The first sale doctrine only protects unauthorized resellers if the products sold are materially the same as those the manufacturer would sell. Based on what I read online manufacturers try to fight the first sale doctrine in court on the basis that their products come with services which cannot be rendered by unauthorized sellers hence making the products sold by unauthorized sellers as materially different. Known challenges to the first sale doctrine are for example warranty services that only authorized sellers can render, or in the case of Lego, quality controls. The quality control exception to the first sale doctrine when presented in court must be proven. Manufacturer cannot come up with fake quality control measures. It must be proven to the court that quality controls exist and are meaningful enough to make the product sold by unauthorized sellers materially different. Again, I think it is best to let an attorney who is verse with the first sale doctrine and known challenges to it gauge the validity of Vorys claims and offer best advise.

[flyingpig1]

On 12/11/2021 at 8:15 PM, redcell said:

You're destined for disappointment if you compare any year to last year.

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Yeah perspective is worth keeping in mind

Its disappointing to not hit last years numbers, but things are still ahead of 2019, even despite all the restock headaches

[Kerber]

Help - When trying to "Add Product" in Amazon for a newly retired Legos, AZ shows "Not Available" for the items (instead of select condition). I can see 70 other offers already on this item, and I can add older Lego sets just fine. I contacted Amazon and they did not give me straight answer that would make any sense other than I can't list that particular SKU at this time.

Any ideas what's going on? Why other 70 sellers are able to add it, but not others?

 

[LegoBro]

2 hours ago, Bricklectic said:

not Colorado. Their biz model is mostly quick flipping. small fish. I dont see a clear reason why they would pursue one random guy, There must be over 1k sellers of lego on amazon and its easy peezy lemon squeezy for this ambulance chaser law firm to simply look them up and send letters willy nilly. its really odd.

Their argument and precedent they quote from shell is really slimy though. Sickens me that they twist logic just to chase small time sellers. apparently they do this for many brands per my quick google search.

Could it be he sold a product associated with lego? Just looking at the amazon forums and one thread came up with "laser pegs" building sets. Apparently there is an ongoing court battle between them and Lego. Lego is the plaintiff. Wonder if he got caught up in that type of net? If he's quick flipping could have sent anything toy related on discount at the store without thinking much of it.

[river41]

37 minutes ago, LegoBro said:

Could it be he sold a product associated with lego? Just looking at the amazon forums and one thread came up with "laser pegs" building sets. Apparently there is an ongoing court battle between them and Lego. Lego is the plaintiff. Wonder if he got caught up in that type of net? If he's quick flipping could have sent anything toy related on discount at the store without thinking much of it.

if you look at the letter it orders him to cease and desist from selling lego .It doesn't mention other knockoffs