BURNED!

[varmintt]

I guess if you sell enough you're bound to get burned eventually.   I've been reading this forum with the intermittent reports of problems with ebay buyers and felt fortunate I have yet to be scammed.  But today is my turn and now I turn to the good people of this forum for some needed advice about how to proceed with my first dishonest buyer. 

 

I sold a minifigure on ebay 4 month ago (12 bucks plus shipping)

shipped item off and tracking confirmed delivery a few days later to a confirmed address.

 

Today I get an email from paypal that they buyer is disputing the transaction stating it was an unauthorized charge.

 

Pay pal wants proof the transaction was authorized or they will complete the charge back without dispute. 

 

How am I supposed to show this was authorized beyond the obvious fact this was purchased on ebay with the individual's password protected account?

 

I'm tearing my hair out because its too late to get someone from ebay or paypal on the phone.

 

Anyone have  an experience like this?

Any suggestions?

[boliramirez]

Do not lose any sleep over $12 dollars.......

 

Moving on..............

[justafrog]

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/helpcenter/helphub/home/

 

If you've already been there and CS is closed, call them tomorrow. They'll walk you through the process.

 

Basically, they may be willing to dispute the chargeback on your behalf. That doesn't mean they're going to win against the cc company, and if they don't, you don't either. Meanwhile, the money will be taken out of your account or backup funding source.

 

If this buyer did the same thing to a lot of sellers, PayPal will be more likely to try to dispute it with the cc company. If you're the only one, you're probably out 12 bucks.

 

If you had a brick and mortar store, you'd have shoplifters (and still have chargebacks ) - it's annoying as heck when it happens, but you figure it into your cost of doing business and you move on.

[stephen_rockefeller]

I'm giving the master ebayer badge to frog! It's awesome to have someone who is so knowledgeable about a particular service!

[varmintt]

Wow, that's really helpful.  Thanks for talking me off the ledge...

 

I guess I should have stated (although it seemed obvious to me) this isn't about $12.  I only included the purchase price because it seems like such a small amount to pull a stunt like this over.  But this could just as easily have been a 1000 piece set. 

 

 

I'm mostly baffled that with an ebay transaction # and tracking showing "delivered" that pay pal feels they need additional information to defend this chargeback.  Such are my delusions of "seller protection." 

[justafrog]

I'm giving the master ebayer badge to frog! It awesome to have someone who is so knowledgeable about a particular service!

 

Thanks! I've been there long enough to run smack into most problems, I think.

[justafrog]

I'm mostly baffled that with an ebay transaction # and tracking showing "delivered" that pay pal feels they need additional information to defend this chargeback.  Such are my delusions of "seller protection." 

 

Chargebacks are a separate issue from things that seller protection covers you on (like non-delivery, which is what the delivery or signature confirmation helps with).

 

With any credit card payment processing company - PayPal, any of the several that brick and mortar stores typically use, etc. - you are at the mercy of chargebacks because your processing company, in this case PayPal, is at the mercy of chargebacks. They can (and do, because if you were a flake with no money they could get to, they'd have to cover it themselves) challenge chargebacks, but they won't always win the case with mastercard or visa.

 

That is a reality of accepting credit cards in your business and using any credit card processing company to do so. PayPal is no worse than any other similar service in this regard. It's a risk you accept because you want your buyers to enjoy the convenience of using their credit or debit cards to buy your stuff.

[varmintt]

Thanks Justafrog!

 

Your insight is appreciated.

 

Sounds like its a lost cause though from what you're saying?  Paypal is requesting more information regarding the sale.  What more can I give them other than the Ebay item/transaction ID and tracking information?

 

I was thinking Id feel much better if I sent the buyer a gift as a token of my appreciation.  Is it illegal to send a dog pie through USPS?

[varmintt]

one other thought...

 

Since this was an Ebay transaction and this buyer is still active on ebay, is there any benefit to contacting ebay?  Seems like they should treat this the same as a non paying bidder.

[trekgate502]

Hoping I can help.  I had this happen once.

 

Apparently on low $ non signature items this is a fairly frequent thing on ebay for people trying to skip out on payment.

I have only had it happen once.

 

Paypal had me respond to the case.

 

 

Since it was under $100 they just wanted proof of tracking and not a signature as I remember.

 

I told them nicely in the case response:

 

- I do not understand

- It was purchased from a valid ebay account

- It shows where I shipped was a confirmed shipping address for the paypal account

- There is tracking showing delivery via USPS tracking

 

 

Then i told them a little bit that I am a seller that has been on ebay for years with 100% feedback.

That I shipped to the confirmed address for a paypal account.

That I am assuming no one has told paypal the account has been compromised.

That it shows delivery.

That if the confirmed ship to address on the account is correct, then they should be able to return at their expense the minifigure.

That if such a thing happened that someone broke into their paypal account, used a credit card and had it shipped to somewhere then why have they not filed a report with paypal that their account has been compromised.

 

That I think this all sounds unrealistic and I should not have to pay for this situation.

 

I did find that paypal will research it and get back with you.

 

In my case since I shipped to a confirmed address, and paypal must have agreed with my logic, which I firmly believed, that they found in my favor, whether they had to reimburse the person themselves or the person did not win the case.

 

Just put all this in your own words and situation.  Shipping it to a confirmed address with proof of tracking really helped me plus my notes about how it is not realistic.  List out all the details like I did.

 

There is a character limit on the response.

It did not show my notes in the case status so I copied and pasted them first to print out before I submitted it.

 

Let us know how it turns out.

[Migration]

I had a similar incident about a month ago with a $7 Jar Jar mini fig. They sent me the email you described, but as I used eBay shipping they already had all the info that I did. If you haven't done so already give PayPal a call and talk it over with them, if nothing else it will help you understand what's going on better. Oddly enough PayPal either fought the chargeback and won or simply took the loss and reimbursed me because about a week later I got my seven bucks back.

[WTL]

This happened to me and it was Paypal investigating on their own.  Buyer never started a complaint.  Same wording as yours too.  I sold a digital code for a Marvel comic and I didn't have proof of delivery.  I called Paypal and they straightened it out.

[justafrog]

one other thought...

 

Since this was an Ebay transaction and this buyer is still active on ebay, is there any benefit to contacting ebay?  Seems like they should treat this the same as a non paying bidder.

 

eBay can't help you on chargebacks. Your buyer has made a claim that his credit card was used without authorization - if he's telling the truth, he is entitled to protection from his credit card company just like he's claiming. If he's just trying to get some free stuff, his credit card company is in the best position to determine that based on his past history, etc.

 

All PayPal can do is honor their agreement with the credit card companies to return the money to them, and, if they feel like it, dispute the claim that the card was used fraudulently. The credit card company then does some further investigation, says yea or nay, and PayPal moves on from there.

 

I was interested to read that several folks had PayPal cover these for them - I was not aware that PP ever covers chargebacks on behalf of sellers - if that is correct, in that regard they're better than most other credit card processors instead of worse.

[trekgate502]

eBay can't help you on chargebacks. Your buyer has made a claim that his credit card was used without authorization - if he's telling the truth, he is entitled to protection from his credit card company just like he's claiming. If he's just trying to get some free stuff, his credit card company is in the best position to determine that based on his past history, etc.

 

All PayPal can do is honor their agreement with the credit card companies to return the money to them, and, if they feel like it, dispute the claim that the card was used fraudulently. The credit card company then does some further investigation, says yea or nay, and PayPal moves on from there.

 

I was interested to read that several folks had PayPal cover these for them - I was not aware that PP ever covers chargebacks on behalf of sellers - if that is correct, in that regard they're better than most other credit card processors instead of worse.

 

Justafrog, yes it is part of their paypal seller protection policy.

[justafrog]

Here's some additional information about the chargeback process, in case the OP hasn't been able to get PP on the phone yet:

 

https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/security/chargeback-faq

[imirish11]

As a seller, I've had numerous chargebacks filed against me. I was even a target of some scammers and hit with a large series of chargebacks on the low end items and also the sale of several iPads. In the end, as long as I had signature confirmation on orders over $250 and delivery confirmation on orders under $250, then I was covered by seller protection and never lost a single penny. I've never had an item not as described chargeback, only for alleged items not rec'd. Always use tracking info if you can't afford to lose a chargeback.

Sent from my iPhone using Brickpicker

[grackleflint]

I was interested to read that several folks had PayPal cover these for them - I was not aware that PP ever covers chargebacks on behalf of sellers - if that is correct, in that regard they're better than most other credit card processors instead of worse.

 

I have had PayPal cover me/restore the funds for an attempted chargeback. PayPal didn't tell me the reason but I think it was because I got positive feedback from the buyer that everything was good and that was ultimately good enough as an acknowledgement that the buyer did intentionally purchase it. A good reason to always request feedback from your buyers.

 

FWIW, sometimes these chargebacks after a period of time are the result of the buyer going through their credit card statement months later and seeing a charge that they don't remember making so they dispute first to protect themselves (you typically only have 45 days after receiving the statement and sometimes it is as easy as clicking on a transaction in an online list) and then maybe try to find out what really happened. Sometimes they then remember.

[justafrog]

Just to clarify: I was not aware of PP covering unauthorized use chargebacks (unless and until they had won a case with the cc company) - I know they cover for non-delivery when you can prove it.

[Migration]

FWIW when PayPal released the hold on my $7 they didn't give any indication as to why. When I called on the phone after I was notified of the hold they said that yes I had done everything correctly with tracking and verified shipping address and so forth and that they were investigating the issue.

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