76023 - The Tumbler

[GhostDad]

What matters is delivering what you say you'll deliver.  If a seller, whether an individual or giant corporation, does not state there is box damage, it is reasonable for me to expect there is not any.  I don't worry over scuff marks or a crease here and there, but more serious issues such as tears or loose factory seals are a problem and will drop the resale price by 10% or more.

I get lots of messages from potential buyers wanting to be reassured that the box is mint.  Collectors do care about this, even if they plan to build the set.  It's not my place as a seller to tell them 'LOL you're dumb for caring about the box'.  I'm thankful that people willing to pay 2 x MSRP or more for my sets exist in the first place, and I'll do what I can to address their concerns.  If I spent $500 for a Town Hall and it arrived wrapped in brown paper and flattened in shipment, you can bet I'd file a claim with eBay ASAP.  There's no excuse for such sloppiness when dealing with items of that value.

[TheGallows]

This threads getting a little de-railed guys. Come on

[dcdfan]

What matters is delivering what you say you'll deliver.  If a seller, whether an individual or giant corporation, does not state there is box damage, it is reasonable for me to expect there is not any.  I don't worry over scuff marks or a crease here and there, but more serious issues such as tears or loose factory seals are a problem and will drop the resale price by 10% or more.

I get lots of messages from potential buyers wanting to be reassured that the box is mint.  Collectors do care about this, even if they plan to build the set.  It's not my place as a seller to tell them 'LOL you're dumb for caring about the box'.  I'm thankful that people willing to pay 2 x MSRP or more for my sets exist in the first place, and I'll do what I can to address their concerns.  If I spent $500 for a Town Hall and it arrived wrapped in brown paper and flattened in shipment, you can bet I'd file a claim with eBay ASAP.  There's no excuse for such sloppiness when dealing with items of that value.

Box damage absolutely should always be disclosed on the front end. Always...

[GhostDad]

12 minutes ago, Average Guy said:

I dont begrudge anyone for hand sorting an item in person at a store - that is the buyer's choice. However when a reseller guises themselves as an end-consumer instead of a reseller, and uses a carrier service to order product unseen from a retailer, sometimes using the retailer's sales or promotions or coupons and sometimes in large quantities, and then under that guise as an end consumer, complains to the retailer about a dent, or a crease, or a scratch, and wants a replacement or a partial refund, then I have issue with that. If you think all of this is your right as a consumer an  END-COMSUMER, just let the retailer know that you are a reseller and see what their action toward you is.

The thing is, all a retailer has to do is post a disclaimer to the effect that their shipping department is staffed by rabid wombats, and I'll stay away.  Everyone's happy. 

When I receive a $200 lego set from WalMart.com and all they've done is slap a shipping label on the lego box itself, so it arrives torn and filthy, well, let's just say I don't feel guilty for returning it.  If LEGO Shop at Home, Amazon, Target, and I as a little tiny seller compared with those folks, can all afford shipping boxes, then the largest employer in North America sure can as well.  I'll bet a shipping box that costs me $4 costs Wal-Mart $1 or less.  Maybe one of their multi-millionaire executives should try earning his salary and look into it.

[dcdfan]

This threads getting a little de-railed guys. Come on

I disagree. Only because Tumbler seems to have more damaged reports than any other set I can recall other than SSD from Walmart. If this all needs to be moved, feel free. As always. Delete even. No problem...

[cladner]

what about when a retailer purposely damages the product before they send it to you because they think you are a reseller and want to damage the box so you can't resell?  you guys think that's ok? 

 

 

[Average Guy]

6 minutes ago, GhostDad said:

The thing is, all a retailer has to do is post a disclaimer to the effect that their shipping department is staffed by rabid wombats, and I'll stay away.  Everyone's happy. 

When I receive a $200 lego set from WalMart.com and all they've done is slap a shipping label on the lego box itself, so it arrives torn and filthy, well, let's just say I don't feel guilty for returning it.  If LEGO Shop at Home, Amazon, Target, and I as a little tiny seller compared with those folks, can all afford shipping boxes, then the largest employer in North America sure can as well.  I'll bet a shipping box that costs me $4 costs Wal-Mart $1 or less.  Maybe one of their multi-millionaire executives should try earning his salary and look into it.

I dont think you are necessarily wrong and I am not trying to belittle anyone for wanting mint boxes. We all want mint boxes whether for resale or collecting, or just cosmetics. What I am saying is, if you buy for reselling from retailers and you are returning Lego kits because of kit box condition, you are hurting us small resellers (by us I mean everyone on this forum) in the end by causing higher costs.  That statement doesn't encompass the entire condition of "damage" to a kit box or reason for return, but I do believe by returning small defects of a kit box to retailers a reseller is causing harm.  I know that is not a popular opinion given the "occupation" of users on this forum but I believe it to be true. I am also saying many retailers believe it is true and will eventually ban a person as a reseller for this reason amongst other reasons. So by posting this it is my wish that some readers here will take heed and use thought before deciding to return a Lego kit for incidental small kit box issues, else we all take the risk of being labeled as resellers and getting banned, as Lego Company for example likes to do.

 

[stephen_rockefeller]

How does returning sets with damaged boxes increase our cost? That is a serious question. Also if we want the play the blame game let's place the blame where it ultimately belongs, with companies who take every shortcut available in shipping to consumers.

[Average Guy]

3 hours ago, cladner said:

what about when a retailer purposely damages the product before they send it to you because they think you are a reseller and want to damage the box so you can't resell?  you guys think that's ok? 

how is this damaged? Will the child who receives it complain of a sticker on it and refuse to build it? That is what the product is for right, building? Usually by a child?

[dcdfan]

3 hours ago, cladner said:

what about when a retailer purposely damages the product before they send it to you because they think you are a reseller and want to damage the box so you can't resell?  you guys think that's ok?

They do it for sorting orders. All the product is dumped (usually by machines) on belts & then sorted into boxes. Although a huge PITA, it has nothing to do with buying habits...

[GhostDad]

5 minutes ago, Average Guy said:

I dont think you are necessarily wrong and I am not trying to belittle anyone for wanting mint boxes. We all want mint boxes whether for resale or collecting, or just cosmetics. What I am saying is, if you buy for reselling from retailers and you are returning Lego kits because of kit box condition, you are hurting us small resellers (by us I mean everyone on this forum) in the end by causing higher costs.  That statement doesn't encompass the entire condition of "damage" to a kit box or reason for return, but I do believe by returning small defects of a kit box to retailers a reseller is causing harm.  I know that is not a popular opinion given the "occupation" of users on this forum but I believe it to be true. I am also saying many retailers believe it is true and will eventually ban a person as a reseller for this reason amongst other reasons. So by posting this it is my wish that some readers here will take heed and use thought before deciding to return a Lego kit for incidental small kit box issues, else we all take the risk of being labeled as resellers and getting banned, as Lego Company for example likes to do.

 

I actually use essentially the same standards for everyone I buy from, even LEGO Shop at Home.  I only return boxes for tears, loose seals, serious dents/creases (like they were stepped on), or suspect weights (several ounces too light).  I also don't use multiple accounts or disguise my identity (by checking out as a 'guest', for example), so if a company wants to ban me, they can easily do so.  On the other hand, if they don't ban me, they can go on shipping multiple large exclusives bought at MSRP to the same address, which has to be good for margins.  I never use discounted gift cards or coupons, either, so I'm quite profitable for them to deal with so long as their shipping departments are paying attention.

[cladner]

21 minutes ago, Average Guy said:

how is this damaged? Will the child who receives it complain of a sticker on it and refuse to build it? That is what the product is for right, building? Usually by a child?

you need to get your vision checked.  child is going to complain - why can't I see Sleeping Beauty's face mommy?    everyone who thinks in a post-horde environment box doesn't matter, i hope for your sake you are right.  i've given up on ordering from target.

Edited December 24, 2015 by cladner

[dcdfan]

How does returning sets with damaged boxes increase our cost? That is a serious question. Also if we want the play the blame game let's place the blame where it ultimately belongs, with companies who take every shortcut available in shipping to consumers.

This is completely true. What sucks is, they take the same care in the product whether it's a penny or (in this case) $200...

[exciter1]

15 minutes ago, stephen_rockefeller said:

How does returning sets with damaged boxes increase our cost? That is a serious question. Also if we want the play the blame game let's place the blame where it ultimately belongs, with companies who take every shortcut available in shipping to consumers.

It's mostly because they want to treat you like Joe Consumer, not Joe Boxsnoberelli.

[Average Guy]

8 minutes ago, stephen_rockefeller said:

How does returning sets with damaged boxes increase our cost? That is a serious question. Also if we want the play the blame game let's place the blame where it ultimately belongs, with companies who take every shortcut available in shipping to consumers.

If those companies (retail companies) who as a reseller, are our 'suppliers',  "take every shortcut available in shipping to consumers" to earn 'more money' then by us a resellers returning Lego products with slight kit box defects, are causing these retail companies , our 'suppliers' more costs which earns them LESS money. So if we resellers cause them to earn LESS money by returning Lego kits because they aren't 'mint', then I suspect they will ban you.

 I am not saying anyone is wrong for wanting mint boxes I am saying look at the end result: they will ban you eventually and all of us for this practice. That is my belief anyway. For this reason as a reseller, I accept boxes with reasonable damage.

[dcdfan]

I don't think anyone ordering online is expecting mint. We all just want undamaged. Tears, rips & opened are issues. Anything else is fine by me. If I require mint, I buy in store. If I missed the boat & buy at a later date, I'd like disclosed a pancake. But I don't wanna pay what the going rate is for that box. I wanna pay less & would expect others to as well. "Fair is fair, Billie Jean."

[Average Guy]

I'm done 'ranting' about "boxsnobbers".  lol Just watch out for the banhammer. Let's continue posting about Tumbler.

[waddamon]

5 hours ago, GhostDad said:

In the US market, we have both ToO and R5 widely available on eBay and Amazon for around $250 with free shipping.  Deduct eBay/Amazon/PayPal fees, and profit is almost nil if you bought near MSRP.  So yes, I'd call that failure to appreciate.  4-6 months post retirement was plenty for any number of large exclusives retiring last year to reach 50% over MSRP.  If you think today's secondary market is even as healthy as 2014's, you're ignoring a huge amount of evidence to the contrary (I didn't even mention Sea Cow sitting on Amazon at MSRP months after being 'sold out' on LEGO Shop at Home).

When did 10240 and 10237 actually retire in the US?  Sold out does not count as both have been there before.  Once officially gone I expect things will change, both tapped almost 3 hundred at the eaely sold out status.  Sea cow is sold out as well.  I do think it highly unreasonable for an investor to expect 50-100% return once something goes to sold out.  This place needs some perspective.

[Pseudoty]

Maybe we should have a box condition discussion thread. Like I said before another issue with EOL buying is obtaining MISB sets, not sure when they became kits, especially if target is just recycling returns. There are other sets that are hard to get MISB in the mail like EV (due to its weight to surface area ratio) but one thing about the Tumbler it does look nice MISB with its shiny black finish. As a reseller and a collector box condition matters to me and some of my customers. I know most recently with UAHQ some international buyers were glad just to get the set and asked if shipping would be less without the box since they were going to build it.  Also, I know when I am buying a set to add to my collection I always look for MISB as with time this can be a reflection on how the set was taken care of, smoke free, pet free, climate controlled, and so on.  I recently added Lego Castle Giant Chess Set to my collection and payed well over $1000 for MISB knowing I was not going to build it but display it in its box. This may be an exception since the set and box have unique display qualities, but when it arrived (shipped with the utmost care and excellent packaging) it was as if I hand picked it at the Lego store myself.  I am also a builder of sets but if I want to build a chess set I can just grab one of the many Pirates chess sets I just picked up on sale from LEGO Shop at Home. MISB will help differentiate your set from the hundreds of others for sale and will also help command a higher price in time. That being said I never list MISB as ones perception of Mint may be different then the others, I use "Collecters Quality" instead. I know from selling SW Black Series, amiibos, and Pops that collectors of items not intended to be opened box condition matters and these tend to be the same people that always leave feedback. There is a market for MISB Lego sets and if you want to go with dented, creased, stickered sets that is fine just make sure that is clear in your listings so you do not have to deal with those buyers. Popped seals is a different story you have to do open verified or no box. 

Edited December 24, 2015 by Pseudoty

[GhostDad]

8 minutes ago, waddamon said:

When did 10240 and 10237 actually retire in the US?  Sold out does not count as both have been there before.  Once officially gone I expect things will change, both tapped almost 3 hundred at the eaely sold out status.  Sea cow is sold out as well.  I do think it highly unreasonable for an investor to expect 50-100% return once something goes to sold out.  This place needs some perspective.

'Reasonable' has nothing to do with it.  Returns per unit of time are getting steadily worse.  Within a few months of 'sold out' status at LEGO Shop at Home, GE, HH, SSD, R2, and even AA had appreciated far more percentagewise than this year's retiring exclusives.  I'm not even counting TH, which retired by 'surprise'.

[Average Guy]

23 minutes ago, dcdfan said:

 

I don't think anyone ordering online is expecting mint. We all just want undamaged. Tears, rips & opened are issues. Anything else is fine by me. If I require mint, I buy in store. If I missed the boat & buy at a later date, I'd like disclosed a pancake. But I don't wanna pay what the going rate is for that box. I wanna pay less & would expect others to as well. "Fair is fair, Billie Jean."

i only like that comment because you quoted Billie Jean. WE ARE STRONG! No one can tell us we're wrong

[Bold-Arrow]

13 minutes ago, waddamon said:

When did 10240 and 10237 actually retire in the US?  Sold out does not count as both have been there before.  Once officially gone I expect things will change, both tapped almost 3 hundred at the eaely sold out status.  Sea cow is sold out as well.  I do think it highly unreasonable for an investor to expect 50-100% return once something goes to sold out.  This place needs some perspective.

Cheers to your post 

[jbacunn]

44 minutes ago, cladner said:

you need to get your vision checked.  child is going to complain - why can't I see Sleeping Beauty's face mommy?    everyone who thinks in a post-horde environment box doesn't matter, i hope for your sake you are right.  i've given up on ordering from target.

Off topic but a hair dryer and a little patience will take those stickers off with no residue. 

[exciter1]

22 minutes ago, Pseudoty said:

Maybe we should have a box condition discussion thread. Like I said before another issue with EOL buying is obtaining MISB sets, not sure when they became kits, especially if target is just recycling returns. There are other sets that are hard to get MISB in the mail like EV (due to its weight to surface area ratio) but one thing about the Tumbler it does look nice MISB with its shiny black finish. As a reseller and a collector box condition matters to me and some of my customers. I know most recently with UAHQ some international buyers were glad just to get the set and asked if shipping would be less without the box since they were going to build it.  Also, I know when I am buying a set to add to my collection I always look for MISB as with time this can be a reflection on how the set was taken care of, smoke free, pet free, climate controlled, and so on. MISB will help differentiate your set from the hundreds of others for sale and will also help command a higher price in time. That being said I never list MISB as ones perception of Mint may be different then the others, I use "Collecters Quality" instead. I know from selling SW Black Series, amiibos, and Pops that collectors of items not intended to be opened box condition matters and these tend to be the same people that always leave feedback. There is a market for MISB Lego sets and if you want to go with dented, creased, stickered sets that is fine just make sure that is clear in your listings so you do not have to deal with those buyers. Popped seals is a different story you have to do open verified or no box.

We have about 6 threads that already discuss box condition.  Now run through that wall like the Kool-Aid man and we're in business.

[Pseudoty]

2 hours ago, exciter1 said:

We have about 6 threads that already discuss box condition.  Now run through that wall like the Kool-Aid man and we're in business.

I did that with Kings Castle I think Tumbler would be pushing it