76023 - The Tumbler

[newbie77]

1 hour ago, Quagmire said:

I wondered that too, have got to be knock offs when you see one dude in eBay selling 50+ joker mininfigs

anything is possible can't rule out. but there are ways one can determine authenticity of mini-figures, their parts.

yes there has been KO versions, but for LEGO afficianados it not only stands out, color combination isn't there. anyone who has played with LEGO will know the difference between the real and fake. (let me just say that).

there are lot of large part-a-outers, at least 20-30 in US who part 100s of exclusives at a time. so its not incomprehensible that mini figure supply is from parting actual sets.

i have myself bought over few grand worth of minifigs per orders. here is a brick link order of mini figure from the past. yes i have redacted actual item name and other identifying marks including full price and item price portion of it. { and i am a small fish in this ocean }

there are very very big players in the market so breaking $20k set at a time is not a big deal. and yes some of the sellers having over 100 of same mini-figure is not uncommon at all. yes some of those do cost pretty penny.

 

[Lordoflego]

14 minutes ago, newbie77 said:

 

yes there has been KO versions, but for LEGO afficianados it not only stands out, color combination isn't there. anyone who has played with LEGO will know the difference between the real and fake. (let me just say that).

That's what I thought too, unless things changed and fakes are exactly the same color/material/quality plus little Lego logo all over minifig parts 

[newbie77]

6 minutes ago, Lordoflego said:

That's what I thought too, unless things changed and fakes are exactly the same color/material/quality plus little Lego logo all over minifig parts 

i have yet to come across a KO version that's so close to original. basically, the day i see that i will exit this. 

having said that, i am seeing quite a few KO  in amazon. i have purchased about $400 worth of items so far. Amazon should be paying me for doing their job. but none of these KO have come close. btw, anyone claiming LEGO and selling KO be-careful. sooner or later you are getting suspended out of amazon. 

[chipbee]

36 minutes ago, newbie77 said:

anything is possible can't rule out. but there are ways one can determine authenticity of mini-figures, their parts.

yes there has been KO versions, but for LEGO afficianados it not only stands out, color combination isn't there. anyone who has played with LEGO will know the difference between the real and fake. (let me just say that).

there are lot of large part-a-outers, at least 20-30 in US who part 100s of exclusives at a time. so its not incomprehensible that mini figure supply is from parting actual sets.

i have myself bought over few grand worth of minifigs per orders. here is a brick link order of mini figure from the past. yes i have redacted actual item name and other identifying marks including full price and item price portion of it. { and i am a small fish in this ocean }

there are very very big players in the market so breaking $20k set at a time is not a big deal. and yes some of the sellers having over 100 of same mini-figure is not uncommon at all. yes some of those do cost pretty penny.

 

Pls enlghten me. I thought the head prints of 76023 set's minifigs are exclusive to this set only? Also the torso of batman in 76023? So from where does these sellers get their sets to part out?

I know people do part out sets, but usually for smaller sets, especially the battlepacks and smaller superheroes. and we usually see roughly equal number of vehicles and minifigs sold separately. One popular large set to part out is 10236, because there are so many exclusive minifigs to sell that you almost already made up the cost price by mini-fig sales alone, and the remaining bricks can be sold on bricklink for a good overall profit since the tree related bricks are quite in demand too.

But how to explain why there are so many more 76023 minifigs than the tumbler vehicles without minifigs out there? Is there a lot of demand for black bricks? Does the sale of 2 minifigs cover cost of entire set?

[dcdfan]

Where are all the instruction books from all these parted out sets...?

[Jules_K]

As others have stated, knockoffs always have been easy to identify, a Google search can help you out if you're not sure.

 

I remember someone on here once questioning how there were sellers on Amazon with 100+ Gingerbread Houses for sale as there's was no way to obtain that quantity as an end consumer. One of the old timer's on here chimed in that there are other legitimate ways for sellers to obtain large quantities of exclusive items, but didn't divulge any more information than that. 

I'm not sure about the parting out theory. We've got one seller alone with 60k feedback from selling individual minifigures, that's a heck of a lot of parting out.

[chipbee]

9 minutes ago, Jules_K said:

As others have stated, knockoffs always have been easy to identify, a Google search can help you out if you're not sure.

 

I remember someone on here once questioning how there were sellers on Amazon with 100+ Gingerbread Houses for sale as there's was no way to obtain that quantity as an end consumer. One of the old timer's on here chimed in that there are other legitimate ways for sellers to obtain large quantities of exclusive items, but didn't divulge any more information than that. 

I'm not sure about the parting out theory. We've got one seller alone with 60k feedback from selling individual minifigures, that's a heck of a lot of parting out.

There are many vague references in your posts. Who is the "old timer"? Where is his post? Who is the seller with 60k feedback? Are all these feedback solely from selling lego authentic minifigs? How do you verify?

Gingerbread houses are less likely to be fake, as it takes a lot more work to fake a complete box set. And there could be gingerbread sets on sale at certain lego stores, especially in Legoland. 76023 exclusive minifigs are not for sale separately by Lego and no one can explain why there are so many available for sale out there.

[Dr. Brick]

1 hour ago, chipbee said:

You should not divert the topic by throwing straw man argument here. I am merely asking how do you verify authenticity?

And i am also saying that you have conflict of interest in making unsubstantiated claims of authenticity. You need to back up your claims with facts and proof.

Lego does not sell these minifigs separately. Where is the source of goods? Someone who claim to be working for lego and have illegally sold off excess minifigs? So is this sale of stolen goods? Are the resellers knowingly or unknowingly participating in sale of stolen goods?

If these are legitimate sales by lego, then lego is lying to global customers that 76023 has exclusive minifigs. You sure you want to make such a claim?

You bring up an excellent and absolute valid point. How can Lego ever claim these minifigures to be exclusive but then sell them through a back door to some of their vendors/relations/whatever. Excellent question!

[trekgate502]

All I know is what the Terminator tought me .....

Wait wrong movie

All I know is what Jonathan Goldsmith tought me "When I buy Minifigures, I buy them buy them a g worth at a time" - Dos Equis, The Most Interesting Man In The World

[Jules_K]

You're right, no one can explain it, we can only theorize, but the figures for sale by reputable sellers are definitely not fake, so lets please dispel that theory.

Now, who's got some photos of a damaged box Tumbler they're thinking they might return? 

[tractorboy]

18 minutes ago, Dr. Brick said:

You bring up an excellent and absolute valid point. How can Lego ever claim these minifigures to be exclusive but then sell them through a back door to some of their vendors/relations/whatever. Excellent question!

It would be naive to think that this doesn't go on, even in an 'unofficial' capacity. Given the cost of producing minifigs, it would be more cost effective to produce more of these figs than is needed for the number of Tumbler sets produced, which let's not forget had a relatively short lifespan. I've seen sellers on BL for example, with huge numbers of rare printed parts from limited sets that were clearly not from parting out. If a minifig is only available in one set, than Lego can claim it's an exclusive fig, becuase it is exclusive to only one set. That doesn't necessarily mean there will be an equal number of that set and those figs actually produced.

[Phil B]

8 minutes ago, tractorboy said:

It would be naive to think that this doesn't go on, even in an 'unofficial' capacity. Given the cost of producing minifigs, it would be more cost effective to produce more of these figs than is needed for the number of Tumbler sets produced, which let's not forget had a relatively short lifespan. I've seen sellers on BL for example, with huge numbers of rare printed parts from limited sets that were clearly not from parting out. If a minifig is only available in one set, than Lego can claim it's an exclusive fig, becuase it is exclusive to only one set. That doesn't necessarily mean there will be an equal number of that set and those figs actually produced.

Similar to previous conversations on how some stores send their damaged/returned inventory to salvage companies, and how some of us BPers are able to buy truckloads of salvage toys for resale, there must be a similar process happening on the producing end at the factories - they churn out more than needed, some goes into the "if people call to complain about missing pieces" bins, and the rest goes into "other channels" such as salvage companies and resellers. Just speculating here, but I would be surprised if LEGO ran exactly matching production processes - I'd rather think they dedicate a slot on a machine to producing part X, put those part X's in storage bins, and then assemble sets using the right combination of bins, and what's left over after a production run of a set either gets used in the next set, or if it's something exclusive, gets sold/scrapped.

[newbie77]

37 minutes ago, chipbee said:

There are many vague references in your posts. Who is the "old timer"? Where is his post? Who is the seller with 60k feedback? Are all these feedback solely from selling lego authentic minifigs? How do you verify?

Gingerbread houses are less likely to be fake, as it takes a lot more work to fake a complete box set. And there could be gingerbread sets on sale at certain lego stores, especially in Legoland. 76023 exclusive minifigs are not for sale separately by Lego and no one can explain why there are so many available for sale out there.

define your so many number? are you talking about 100 or 1,000 or 10,000. if you are talking 10,000 then i would see a discrepancy. but less than that  close to 1,000 i don't see much rationale for suspicion.

1 hour ago, chipbee said:

Pls enlghten me. I thought the head prints of 76023 set's minifigs are exclusive to this set only? Also the torso of batman in 76023? So from where does these sellers get their sets to part out?

I know people do part out sets, but usually for smaller sets, especially the battlepacks and smaller superheroes. and we usually see roughly equal number of vehicles and minifigs sold separately. One popular large set to part out is 10236, because there are so many exclusive minifigs to sell that you almost already made up the cost price by mini-fig sales alone, and the remaining bricks can be sold on bricklink for a good overall profit since the tree related bricks are quite in demand too.

But how to explain why there are so many more 76023 minifigs than the tumbler vehicles without minifigs out there? Is there a lot of demand for black bricks? Does the sale of 2 minifigs cover cost of entire set?

sale of 2 minifigure does not cover the cost of set and that's not how business in bricklink works. if your thinking is sale of minifigure to cover the cost of set in RRP then that usually doesn't happen. not all sets work in that fashion and successful stores in bricklink have lot of parts not specific ones like you mentioned i.e. 10236 and/or components of battlepacks.

76023 has tires as well which are used in bat-pods so they are in demand. of course people have other source but tumbler has pretty good bricks.

looking at the sales of just 76023 stickers and there were sale of around 150 in last 6 months. and another 100 listed.

with regard to where do people get sets? as i said numerous times in the last one year this set has been available in plentiful in US so there are lot of venues where this could have been available in a whole lot.

if you are running in the last minute to get set then its never available but all these theories is everything in the world is counterfeit and every set parted out covers the RRP cost by minifigures are absolute non-nonsensical.

 

Edited January 29, 2016 by newbie77

[tractorboy]

10 minutes ago, Phil B said:

Similar to previous conversations on how some stores send their damaged/returned inventory to salvage companies, and how some of us BPers are able to buy truckloads of salvage toys for resale, there must be a similar process happening on the producing end at the factories - they churn out more than needed, some goes into the "if people call to complain about missing pieces" bins, and the rest goes into "other channels" such as salvage companies and resellers. Just speculating here, but I would be surprised if LEGO ran exactly matching production processes - I'd rather think they dedicate a slot on a machine to producing part X, put those part X's in storage bins, and then assemble sets using the right combination of bins, and what's left over after a production run of a set either gets used in the next set, or if it's something exclusive, gets sold/scrapped.

Exactly. Just becuase they might make 100,000 (for example) units of one set, they are under no obligation to only make 100,000 of those figs. Especially if new, one-off molds and prints are involved. They're are going to want to make it as economically worthwhile as possible to make those new fig molds and prints.

Edited January 29, 2016 by tractorboy

[Phil B]

7 minutes ago, tractorboy said:

Exactly. Just becuase they might make 100,000 (for example) units of one set, they are under no obligation to only make 100,000 of those figs. Especially if new, one-off molds and prints are involved. They're are going to want to make it as economically worthwhile as possible to make those new fig molds and prints.

And let's just add: For LEGO, a minifig is a minifig, no matter how "rare" and "valuable" we think they are. Only the cost of making a new mold for a piece affects the price a bit, but even then, that cost gets spread out over many many copies, often resurfacing in different colors and with different prints. So an 8-piece minifig (hair, head, torso, 2 hands, hips, right leg, left leg) might cost them $0.08 (assuming $0.01 per piece, that's likely way higher than the actual cost), no matter if it is Heath Ledger's joker or your run-of-the-mill construction worker. If they produce too many and can sell a bin full of them for $0.20 per minifig to a salvage company, that's money in the bank. It's only when the minifigs hit the market where the valuation happens.

[conceptmachine]

It's not right...let's just put it this way.  Cameras must not be doing their jobs at the factories.

Edited January 29, 2016 by conceptmachine

[trekgate502]

Five Wow on what this thread has become

[Lordoflego]

mmmmmmm........Tumbler........

[chipbee]

38 minutes ago, tractorboy said:

It would be naive to think that this doesn't go on, even in an 'unofficial' capacity. Given the cost of producing minifigs, it would be more cost effective to produce more of these figs than is needed for the number of Tumbler sets produced, which let's not forget had a relatively short lifespan. I've seen sellers on BL for example, with huge numbers of rare printed parts from limited sets that were clearly not from parting out. If a minifig is only available in one set, than Lego can claim it's an exclusive fig, becuase it is exclusive to only one set. That doesn't necessarily mean there will be an equal number of that set and those figs actually produced.

If this is the case, then whichever Lego exec ought to be fired because this action of selling rare/exclusive minifigs via backdoor is going to crush the sales of a lot of licensed sets. Ghostbusters, Jurassic world etc. all have exclusive figs. Superhero 76049 has Thanos, then maybe everyone should wait for the backdoor Thanos minifig to start selling on bricklink or eBay? Lego makes it a major selling point on exclusive minifigs for many sets, so this is a major issue if ever found out. Are you sure this make any business sense? Saving a few pennies and destroying the brand?

On printed parts, I think some bought the loose bricks from Lego.com. Lego has never claim these printed bricks are exclusive, but the exclusive minifigs are a different level. It is also possible to use special printers on non-printed bricks at fairly low cost, so some people may be doing it if the price is right.

[chipbee]

52 minutes ago, newbie77 said:

define your so many number? are you talking about 100 or 1,000 or 10,000. if you are talking 10,000 then i would see a discrepancy. but less than that  close to 1,000 i don't see much rationale for suspicion.

if you are running in the last minute to get set then its never available but all these theories is everything in the world is counterfeit and every set parted out covers the RRP cost by minifigures are absolute non-nonsensical.

I have already stated the questions. You read his earlier post, you will know the reason.

Nobody here is saying parted out sets are all fake, how do you arrive at this conclusion? The topic is specific to 76023 because the numbers doesn't add up, and I am not the only one noticing this.

[Jules_K]

21 minutes ago, chipbee said:

 It is also possible to use special printers on non-printed bricks at fairly low cost, so some people may be doing it if the price is right.

Sorry but no reputable Lego seller on eBay or Bricklink is doing this and passing it off as a genuine Lego part. There is a market for custom printed parts but they are disclosed as being a non genuine Lego part.

[stephen_rockefeller]

Take this conversation to the appropriate thread please. The end.

[ravenb99]

This guy cannibalized some tumbler wheels. But he has a pimp tractor now.  

[TheOrcKing]

21 minutes ago, ravenb99 said:

This guy cannibalized some tumbler wheels. But he has a pimp tractor now.

You might be a redneck super hero if....

[BarryZola]

Let me begin the daily Smyths-O-Rama.

Website dates for home delivery availability etc now changed to 4th-9th Feb. Will this die please.