bricklink seller disclaimers

[naf]

I've been doing some "window shopping" around bricklink pricing out some older retired sets I might want to add to my collection.  I noticed that quite a few sellers have disclaimers stating things like"

 

-item is not my responsibility once it's dropped off at the post office

-not responsible if item is damaged/lost in mail

-buyer is responsible for submitting usps insurance claim if item is damaged

 

This seem odd to me.  I know bricklink is not ebay, but this stuff would never fly on ebay.  I figured the general consensus is that the seller is responsible for getting the purchased item to the buyer in the condition it was described in.  That's how I operate whenever I sell something online.  If an item is damaged, I'll refund right away and then work with the post office to get reimbursed.

 

I've also noticed that some of these sellers retaliate against not as described cases by leaving negative feedback for the buyer.  I'm sure there are bad buyers out there, but it seems like a broken system if you can be neg'ed just because you want a refund due to an item being lost in the mail.

 

If I buy something from a store with these disclaimers, would this affect any protections I would get if I had to file a not as described claim with paypal?

[grackleflint]

I've been doing some "window shopping" around bricklink pricing out some older retired sets I might want to add to my collection.  I noticed that quite a few sellers have disclaimers stating things like"

 

-item is not my responsibility once it's dropped off at the post office

-not responsible if item is damaged/lost in mail

-buyer is responsible for submitting usps insurance claim if item is damaged

 

This seem odd to me.  I know bricklink is not ebay, but this stuff would never fly on ebay.  I figured the general consensus is that the seller is responsible for getting the purchased item to the buyer in the condition it was described in.  That's how I operate whenever I sell something online.  If an item is damaged, I'll refund right away and then work with the post office to get reimbursed.

 

I've also noticed that some of these sellers retaliate against not as described cases by leaving negative feedback for the buyer.  I'm sure there are bad buyers out there, but it seems like a broken system if you can be neg'ed just because you want a refund due to an item being lost in the mail.

 

If I buy something from a store with these disclaimers, would this affect any protections I would get if I had to file a not as described claim with paypal?

 

PayPal will cover you as long as you send the money as payment for goods/services regardless of whatever the Bricklink seller says in his terms and conditions so it's all ultimately bluster unless you are sending a check/cash/money order, etc. The seller has to follow the standard PayPal seller protection policy to be covered.

 

As for revenge negative feedback, that is why eBay no longer allows sellers to leave negative feedback. I see it all the time. Buyer complains about waiting one month for his order (typical of Bricklink sellers) and the seller just leaves a negative saying the buyer is completely unreasonable and didn't read his seller terms. (even if the seller terms says 2 week delivery) 

 

For that and a host of other reasons, Bricklink is in the nether region between Craigslist and eBay as a "professional" marketplace. Most sellers are AFOLs just trying to part out sets to pay for their own collection rather than an actual standalone money making business with a priority/need for customer service. 

 

But that's what you get for the vast selection, low prices and low selling fees. Maybe it will change with the new makeover but if there are changes that make buyers feel more secure, you can therefore count on sellers paying higher selling fees which will translate into higher prices. 

 

The places with the highest prices and selling fees (Amazon) have the best customer service and return policies and the opposite is true as well. No fees is the jungle that is Craigslist.

[Alcarin]

All such disclaimers are simple fact, of fighting to be cheapest seller and thats why they try to take support from you.....

 

I like Bricklink, much more than I like Ebay really..... cheaper fees, and yet (after 50 orders) to have a bad experience..... 

[naf]

I haven't had a bad experience on bricklink yet either, I'm just wondering if I'm setting myself up for one.  If something gets lost or damaged in the mail, it seems like I have two options:

 

1) Take the loss and try to file a USPS insurance claim myself.

2) File a claim with paypal and get a neg feedback.

 

Of course, not all sellers are like this.  I bought a few polybags that never got to me for whatever reason, and the seller gave me a full refund no questions asked.  However, that's $10 worth of polybags and not a retired set worth hundreds.

[Ed Mack]

Lower fees = Less protections/guarantees  

[grackleflint]

I haven't had a bad experience on bricklink yet either, I'm just wondering if I'm setting myself up for one.  If something gets lost or damaged in the mail, it seems like I have two options:

 

1) Take the loss and try to file a USPS insurance claim myself.

 

 

You will eventually have something bad happen, it's unavoidable and happens to everyone. Only use Paypal, it's the only protection you will probably have.

 

If something is insured and is lost in the mail, the sender has to file the insurance claim. Any seller saying the buyer/recipient is solely responsible is spewing total BS. How would a buyer/recipient file a claim without the actual insurance receipt?

 

If you are worried about negative feedback from sellers and you also want to sell, set up a separate Bricklink account just for buying. 

 

If you are buying on Bricklink, my recommendation is to stick to some of the sellers that have a moderate amount of feedback. Those are the up and coming sellers who are looking to build a good reputation and will care more about customer service and a quick response/shipping time. The really big sellers seem to get too much traffic/business so they are generally always behind in shipping out orders because they are always backlogged so you just get continually delayed, especially with large parts orders.

[KShine]

Lower fees = Less protections/guarantees  

 

Agreed - I like to consider that the high eBay/Paypal fees (that I pay as a seller) are offset by knowing that as a buyer, eBay has me covered.

 

If you buy and sell a lot on eBay - the higher fees are like insurance.

[jerryherb]

sold/bought many sets on bricklink and never had an issue. you can easily spot a scammer by a price thats too good to be true or a buyer that is asking strange questions. always insure and be reasonable, but dont get suckered. all customer service on case-by-case basis is a good thing. paypal is more reasonable than ebay/amazon when it comes to fraudulent disputes as long as you can document it.

[Ed Mack]

Bricklink is a reputable marketplace.  The vast majority of sellers are legit.  You have to decide as an individual if the lower fees are worth the extra risk.  In most cases, the deals on Bricklink work very well between buyer and seller.  Many people do find comfort in the extra commissions paid to sites like eBay and Amazon.  But, it seems that eBay and Amazon are instituting stricter rules and higher expectations for sellers, so many might choose to sell on a less restrictive site like Bricklink.  

[naf]

I should clarify that my above posts were from the perspective of a buyer, not a seller (although I do equal amounts of both on Bricklink).

 

I agree Bricklink is reputable, it was just strange seeing a number of sellers having this kind of disclaimer.  They seem to be legit, and not trying to scam, but also trying to put all of the risk in the hands of the buyer.  That combined with the revenge feedback is a little off-putting.  I've sold on Bricklink, and the one time I had an issue with USPS completely destroying a package I sent out, I gave the buyer a full refund and I didn't think twice about it.  Then I filed an insurance claim and was reimbursed.  I would expect the same treatment if I were in the buyer's shoes, but it looks like some sellers there don't agree.

[jaisonline]

for buying sets, i prefer eBay.  when i need anything else, i use bricklink.

 

when it comes to selling, bricklink is the way to go despite way less than traffic than ebay and amazon.  they key is you most be patient when selling.  e.g. my MISB 10132 Motorized Hogwarts set took over 7 months to sell.

some benefits :

- better seller protection than ebay and amazon. 

- low seller commissions

- the avg buyer also seems smarter.

- very informative website once you learn it.

 

knock on wood but i never had a problem selling on bricklink.

 

as long as buyers pay with PayPal, they are protected fairly unlike amazon and eBay who side with buyers the vast majority of the time.  not to rehash an old story but eBay hasn't been the same (for sellers) since they removed the negative feedback for buyers option.

[jaisonline]

I've been doing some "window shopping" around bricklink pricing out some older retired sets I might want to add to my collection.  I noticed that quite a few sellers have disclaimers stating things like"

 

-item is not my responsibility once it's dropped off at the post office

-not responsible if item is damaged/lost in mail

-buyer is responsible for submitting usps insurance claim if item is damaged

 

personally, i'm fine with what's typed above except the claim file comment.

at some point, buyers need to stop blaming sellers for everything. 

[jaisonline]

Lower fees = Less protections/guarantees  

 

 

this is why paypal should be used for all bricklink purchases.  i know it isn't "ebay or amazon" but paypal does offer excellent protection for a website not associated with bricklink

[DoNotInsertIntoMouth]

this is why paypal should be used for all bricklink purchases.  i know it isn't "ebay or amazon" but paypal does offer excellent protection for a website not associated with bricklink

 

Yeah Paypal is almost exactly Ebay when it comes to that stuff. And they are actually standard with the fees. When Amazon released theirs I thought we would maybe see some fee dips, but it was the same. Says to me you can't do it much cheaper.

[justafrog]

Someone above recommended a second Bricklink account - this is against their TOS, you can have only one account. They merge them when they find you doing it, and if you persist you'll be dumped from the site, so don't do it.

 

Bricklink definitely has some "old eBay" issues - but PayPal buyer protection remains in place, and if you are only going to buy and not sell, retaliatory negative feedback will hurt little besides your feelings.

 

Read seller terms carefully for statements of extra charges, shipping delays, etc. Read feedback. I least favorite stores that have terms I can't live with, so their stuff doesn't even show up when I search, which helps a lot in weeding out very slow shippers or nickel-and-dimers, both of which I find frustrating when I'm buying.

 

Overall, Bricklink is safe and a great place to buy and sell, and your money is as safe as on eBay if you pay via Paypal - no seller terms anywhere supercede PayPal's buyer protections.

[RyanGazelle]

I think anything you buy over the internet comes with a risk. If it is anything very valuable i would try a store that is very close and pick it up. For me I wouldn't order anything over

[junkrigger]

I am making a big purchase through bricklink, and want to make sure I do it correctly.  I have never had any problems, but this seller has low feedback so I think its a risk/reward sort of deal.  I am hoping someone can give me a little advice.  The seller actually sent me a paypal invoice, which states exactly what the item I am buying is and the condition,  Lego set #****** New Sealed but with some shelf wear.  I have never gotten an actual paypal invoice for a bricklink order so I was just curious.  A paypal invoice is always covered by paypal buyer protection right?  Is it standard for bricklink sellers to send a paypal invoice for expensive orders? Thanks

Edited September 18, 2014 by junkrigger

[Alpinemaps]

I always at least put the Bricklink Invoice number into the comments field.

[gregpj]

I am making a big purchase through bricklink, and want to make sure I do it correctly.  I have never had any problems, but this seller has low feedback so I think its a risk/reward sort of deal.  I am hoping someone can give me a little advice.  When I go to pay through paypal, I will say I am paying for goods and services.  When I pay should I make a copy of the bricklink invoice and put that into the payment notes so that paypal has it on record exactly what I am paying for, otherwise how does paypal know what I am paying for?  Any tips would be most appreciated as this is the first time I have purchases an item for hundreds of dollars from a seller with low feedback, but hey everyone starts with low feedback, so as long as paypal is covering me I figure its worth the risk. Thanks

 

For sure include the Bricklink invoice # in the paypal payment, but the reality is that PaPal only covers goods & service purchases for INR (Item Not Received) cases. SNAD cases are only through eBay.

 

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/Marketing/popup/UAeBay-outside

 

For a purchase that big, you should be purchasing shipping insurance anyways which would cover you for INR and damages. If you _sort of_ want to cover yourself for SNAD cases, then you need to hook your credit card up to your PayPal account and pay using the CC. if all else fails, you could get the CC company to chase the seller.

[junkrigger]

Thanks for the tips, yes I did speak with paypal earlier today and they also recommended paying with my credit card, which I will do.  I am surprised to hear about the Significatly not as described not being covered.  So how am I covered if the seller sends me a MF 10179 box with a bunch of rocks in it. Makes me worry a little bit.  But I did receive a paypal invoice that states exactly the item set number and condition. So I am covered for sure right? Thanks again folks for helping me out.

[Guest davewager78]

Not to distract from the subject too much, but it bugs me that a lot of ebay sellers now say versions of "if it gets lost in the post all i'll do is give you the proof of posting, and leave you to sort it out with the post office".

 

This is not acceptable. Your job a seller is to get my item to me. Anything less is not the service i paid for!

[minicoopers11]

I am making a big purchase through bricklink, and want to make sure I do it correctly.  I have never had any problems, but this seller has low feedback so I think its a risk/reward sort of deal.  I am hoping someone can give me a little advice.  The seller actually sent me a paypal invoice, which states exactly what the item I am buying is and the condition,  Lego set #****** New Sealed but with some shelf wear.  I have never gotten an actual paypal invoice for a bricklink order so I was just curious.  A paypal invoice is always covered by paypal buyer protection right?  Is it standard for bricklink sellers to send a paypal invoice for expensive orders? Thanks

Just put the BL order number in the comments when you send the payment. You're covered under buyer protection. I have personally experienced this. It was one order out of 200 where something went wrong.

 

As a seller, I never send invoice via paypal. Just the Bricklink invoice which mentions to make payment via paypal.

[gregpj]

Thanks for the tips, yes I did speak with paypal earlier today and they also recommended paying with my credit card, which I will do.  I am surprised to hear about the Significatly not as described not being covered.  So how am I covered if the seller sends me a MF 10179 box with a bunch of rocks in it. Makes me worry a little bit.  But I did receive a paypal invoice that states exactly the item set number and condition. So I am covered for sure right? Thanks again folks for helping me out.

 

In that particular example, you should be able to argue INR. If you received the MF 10179 and it was missing some major pieces despite the description saying 100% complete, you should also be able to convince them.

 

What the SNAD would cover is, for example, if you purchased a sealed 10179 and when you received it the seals were broken. If the insides were all there you don't have SNAD case or if it was missing a few small pieces, then the "significantly" in this case would be up to you to convince them but would probably be hard.

 

I too find it odd you received a paypal invoice. Did you request that?

[gregpj]

Not to distract from the subject too much, but it bugs me that a lot of ebay sellers now say versions of "if it gets lost in the post all i'll do is give you the proof of posting, and leave you to sort it out with the post office".

 

This is not acceptable. Your job a seller is to get my item to me. Anything less is not the service i paid for!

 

I'm not sure what the rules in the UK are, but Canada Post won't even try to find a package unless you're the one that sent it. The only exception is that if it was attempted to be delivered to your home, but nobody was there so they brought it to the post office instead. In that case, the seller is hooped and the buyer has to track it down (since Canada Post considers it delivered).

[beatpoppa]

Not to distract from the subject too much, but it bugs me that a lot of ebay sellers now say versions of "if it gets lost in the post all i'll do is give you the proof of posting, and leave you to sort it out with the post office".

 

This is not acceptable. Your job a seller is to get my item to me. Anything less is not the service i paid for!

Thereby making the Amazon vs. Ebay premium QED.