STAR WARS VII - "The Force Awakens" - Movie Discussion

[Jeffrey_Dollars]

Was it ever fully explained why they changed the satellite dish on the MF in TFA?

They show it get knocked off when Lando was piloting it in ROTJ

[Fenix_2k1]

I'm going to stop reading this thread now as the Star Bores are completely taking all joy out of the new films.  

[KShine]

2 hours ago, Fenix_2k1 said:

I'm going to stop reading this thread now as the Star Bores are completely taking all joy out of the new films.  

I loved the new Star Wars movie (when I first saw it, sometime back in the 70's).

[thoroakenfelder]

3 hours ago, KShine said:

I loved the new Star Wars movie (when I first saw it, sometime back in the 70's).

That was hilarious the first thousand times someone posted it. (Sometime back in December.)

[KShine]

5 minutes ago, thoroakenfelder said:

That was hilarious the first thousand times someone posted it. (Sometime back in December.)

That was me in Dec, but I changed it - so it now counts as being original & new

Edited April 20, 2016 by KShine

[jeff_14]

14 hours ago, LegoAddict42 said:

I'm sorry but I have to chime in on one point that several of these posts seem to miss. It is that while Rey didn't have experience with the light saber specifically she spent the last 13 + years on Jakku defending herself against other scavengers. Did you not remember her kicking Unkar's thugs butts fairly easily? Also it was mentioned she spent quite a bit of time on the MF and other ships learning all she could about them. Luke had piloting skills but little if any fighting skills. Rey had lots of fighting skills but not much piloting skills. Given that I don't see her holding her own against Kilo that much of a stretch.

I see it as a huge stretch. Beating up some scavengers with a stick puts you in the same weight class as someone with years of training in the force in general and lightsabers in particular? If that's acceptable than any scoundrel with a weapon should be able to take out Jedi no problem. As far as we know Luke did have fighting skills. He grew up in the badlands of Tattooine and would have been warding off Sand People growing up. When Artoo wanders off he immediately grabs a gun and goes hunting. He only gets taken out because they sneak up on him. Then he joins the Rebels and would have been given hand to hand fighting along with all the other experiences he had between ANH and Empire (some of which are being shown in the comics right now) and then he gets a few weeks of training with Yoda and after all that and letting the Force in, he gets smoked by Vader like he's nothing. Vader fights with only one hand on his saber for a good chunk of the fight. Whereas Rey just walks into a swordfight as a novice and overpowers Ren in her first go. Only because he was badly hurt did I not laugh at that scene, but her easy breasy way with the Force takes something away from her character rather than adds to it. It's hard to see someone as heroic when a magic friend just conjures up whatever power is needed at the time to best someone who on any measure is superior through training. 

And Yoda did beat Dooku. He was out of gas after fighting Obi-wan and Anakin already and then was being outclassed by Yoda which is why he had to distract him with the falling column. It's classic Superman villain stuff. When you know Supes has you beat, you throw a reporter off a building or something so you can get away. No one says Superman lost a fight because of that. I was disappointed with the resolution of the fight with Palpatine though. It was pretty even throughout and then Yoda just kind of gave up because he fell. When Obi-wan got knocked off the ramp by Maul he recovered and sprang back into action. I'd have had the stormtroopers show up before the fight ended so that Yoda would have little choice but to retreat in the face of them and Palpatine. It would have seemed more worthy of Yoda then scampering away like a puppy with his tail between his legs because he fell out of a tree.

[thoroakenfelder]

7 minutes ago, KShine said:

That was me in Dec, but I changed it - so it now counts as being original & new

Ok, that totally got a laugh from me.

[thoroakenfelder]

8 minutes ago, jeff_14 said:

And Yoda did beat Dooku. He was out of gas after fighting Obi-wan and Anakin already and then was being outclassed by Yoda which is why he had to distract him with the falling column. It's classic Superman villain stuff. When you know Supes has you beat, you throw a reporter off a building or something so you can get away. No one says Superman lost a fight because of that. I was disappointed with the resolution of the fight with Palpatine though. It was pretty even throughout and then Yoda just kind of gave up because he fell. When Obi-wan got knocked off the ramp by Maul he recovered and sprang back into action. I'd have had the stormtroopers show up before the fight ended so that Yoda would have little choice but to retreat in the face of them and Palpatine. It would have seemed more worthy of Yoda then scampering away like a puppy with his tail between his legs because he fell out of a tree.

He had lost his lightsaber. It appears that you have to have some idea of where a thing is to call it to your hand.

[jeff_14]

2 minutes ago, thoroakenfelder said:

He had lost his lightsaber. It appears that you have to have some idea of where a thing is to call it to your hand.

If Rey can pull Finn's lightsaber to her easily on her first go, a Jedi Council Master should be able to. Besides, they weren't even using lightsabers at that point. Palpatine was all Mr Sparkle and flying saucers and Yoda was redirecting everything like a champ. I remember when I first saw that fight and it just sort of ended and I was like "That's it?" But then they wanted to have some emotional catharsis for the resolutuion of the main event between Obi-wan and Anakin. It's funny when you think that a fight between the Emperor and Yoda is just a sideshow to an even weightier fight.

[Darth_Raichu]

14 minutes ago, jeff_14 said:

Whereas Rey just walks into a swordfight as a novice and overpowers Ren in her first go. Only because he was badly hurt did I not laugh at that scene, but her easy breasy way with the Force takes something away from her character rather than adds to it. It's hard to see someone as heroic when a magic friend just conjures up whatever power is needed at the time to best someone who on any measure is superior through training. 

You just described 90% of sports movies in which the ragtag team of misfits that spend a couple of weeks of montaged training beats the reigning champion that has spent the whole season practicing and playing together.   

[Grynn]

7 minutes ago, jeff_14 said:

Finn's lightsaber 

No, just... NO

[thoroakenfelder]

1 minute ago, Darth_Raichu said:

You just described 90% of sports movies in which the ragtag team of misfits that spend a couple of weeks of montaged training beats the reigning champion that has spent the whole season practicing and playing together.   

I love that movie. Lol

[Grynn]

Just now, Darth_Raichu said:

You just described 90% of sports movies in which the ragtag team of misfits that spend a couple of weeks of montaged training beats the reigning champion that has spent the whole season practicing and playing together.   

Aaaaaand the reason we see this in movies all the time is because it "feels good", unlike real life where the champs beat the stuffing out of the rag-tag misfits 10 times out of 10, humiliating them and making most of them never want to play again.

You all do realize that Star Wars is not high literature, it's action-based ENTERTAINMENT, correct?

[jeff_14]

16 minutes ago, Darth_Raichu said:

You just described 90% of sports movies in which the ragtag team of misfits that spend a couple of weeks of montaged training beats the reigning champion that has spent the whole season practicing and playing together.   

I'm not really into sports movies. 

And just because a movie is action based doesn't mean you don't have to have some basic story competency standards. You can't just throw a bunch of fight scenes together like it's a video game and call it a movie. You do realize that studios hire scriptwriters first and fight choreographers second right?

19 minutes ago, Grynn said:

No, just... NO

What? She gave it away and he was trained in how to fight. It was his until he got taken out. He's probably still unconscious and doesn't realize she took it. Tsk tsk. 

[biking_tiger]

I remember this movie when it was called Jason and the Argonauts. Or the Odyssey, Beowulf, or hell--even Gilgamesh.

[jeff_14]

JJ Abrams quote from an article I just read on FB -  “The weird thing about that movie is that it had been so long since the last one. Obviously the prequels had existed in between and we wanted to, sort of, reclaim the story,” Abrams said. “So we very consciously—and I know it is derided for this—we very consciously tried to borrow familiar beats, so the rest of the movie could hang on something that we knew was Star Wars.....This movie was a bridge and a kind of reminder,” Abrams said. “The audience needed to be reminded what Star Wars is, but it needed to be established with something familiar, with a sense of where we are going to new lands, which is very much what 8 and 9 do

I disagree that the audience "needed" a remake to know what Star Wars is given that those movies have likely been watched more than any others in history but there it is from the director's own mouth. In other words, we recycled a story because we didn't trust either our ability to do an original story or we didn't trust the audience to be able to handle an original story. I'm not sure what's worse. The only glimmer of hope is confirmation that the next ones will be original. So my very patient wait since 1983 for the next chapter may soon be answered. 

6 minutes ago, biking_tiger said:

I remember this movie when it was called Jason and the Argonauts. Or the Odyssey, Beowulf, or hell--even Gilgamesh.

Was the Odyssey the one with the Death Star or Gilgamesh? So long since I've read those......;)

[Darth_Raichu]

35 minutes ago, jeff_14 said:

JJ Abrams quote from an article I just read on FB -  “The weird thing about that movie is that it had been so long since the last one. Obviously the prequels had existed in between and we wanted to, sort of, reclaim the story,” Abrams said. “So we very consciously—and I know it is derided for this—we very consciously tried to borrow familiar beats, so the rest of the movie could hang on something that we knew was Star Wars.....This movie was a bridge and a kind of reminder,” Abrams said. “The audience needed to be reminded what Star Wars is, but it needed to be established with something familiar, with a sense of where we are going to new lands, which is very much what 8 and 9 do

I disagree that the audience "needed" a remake to know what Star Wars is given that those movies have likely been watched more than any others in history but there it is from the director's own mouth. In other words, we recycled a story because we didn't trust either our ability to do an original story or we didn't trust the audience to be able to handle an original story. I'm not sure what's worse. The only glimmer of hope is confirmation that the next ones will be original. So my very patient wait since 1983 for the next chapter may soon be answered. 

To be honest, 90% of viewing public does not have as much knowledge and/or love of Star Wars that you have.  Most people in my real life treated ep VII like any other movies, not an event 25 years in the making.  I bet most people barely remember the details of ep 3, much less ep 4, but they could still recognize the familiar beats.

You are entitled to your opinion. However, I understood the business decision to cast as wide of net as possible to get the most fans (new and old) for the new era of Star Wars.  In a lot of ways the success of ep 8 & 9 depends on a lot of people getting hooked on ep 7.

[biking_tiger]

28 minutes ago, jeff_14 said:

Was the Odyssey the one with the Death Star or Gilgamesh? So long since I've read those......;)

Yes and yes.

Lucas widely admitted the original story was based on standard "heroic cycle" elements that have been with us (and by us I mean all of humankind) for recorded history. Yes, this is a macro view of the story, not a micro one like "this X-wing looks too familiar to that old X-wing," but on some level, when looked at from 30K feet, every hero story is the same. The death star just fills in for the big-bad every hero must face, be it a dragon, hydra, the hero's own libido and ego (looking at you, Odysseus), or a giant planet destroying weapon.

[biking_tiger]

9 minutes ago, Darth_Raichu said:

You are entitled to your opinion. However, I understood the business decision to cast as wide of net as possible to get the most fans (new and old) for the new era of Star Wars.  In a lot of ways the success of ep 8 & 9 depended on a lot of people getting hooked on ep 7.

Bingo. "It's money that I love..."

[jeff_14]

10 minutes ago, biking_tiger said:

Yes and yes.

Lucas widely admitted the original story was based on standard "heroic cycle" elements that have been with us (and by us I mean all of humankind) for recorded history. Yes, this is a macro view of the story, not a micro one like "this X-wing looks too familiar to that old X-wing," but on some level, when looked at from 30K feet, every hero story is the same. The death star just fills in for the big-bad every hero must face, be it a dragon, hydra, the hero's own libido and ego (looking at you, Odysseus), or a giant planet destroying weapon.

And that's fine. I have no problem with reimagining the traditional hero setting in different contexts. My issue is that they remade a movie when something new would be better and more original. Empire Strikes Back bares no resemblance to A New Hope in plot, nor does Return of the Jedi to either of the previous ones. And the prequels were different stories from them and each other while still sharing general themes. I think years from now when we've had a few more of the new movies under our belts Force Awakens is going to seem like an odd man out assuming they don't remake any other movies going forward. 

[fossilrock]

8 minutes ago, jeff_14 said:

And that's fine. I have no problem with reimagining the traditional hero setting in different contexts. My issue is that they remade a movie when something new would be better and more original. Empire Strikes Back bares no resemblance to A New Hope in plot, nor does Return of the Jedi to either of the previous ones. And the prequels were different stories from them and each other while still sharing general themes. I think years from now when we've had a few more of the new movies under our belts Force Awakens is going to seem like an odd man out assuming they don't remake any other movies going forward. 

There was a lot at stake here too.  IF they created another disaster like the Phantom Menace, then there was a chance that billion dollar per year empire would come crumbling down.    So they had to go safe, and in familiar territory with this one.  They succeeded in my book, because i've parted well over a couple grand in merchandise for this darn film.

However, they won't be able to go that route again, and to be honest, I don't really expect them to.

Edited April 20, 2016 by fossilrock

[jeff_14]

22 minutes ago, Darth_Raichu said:

To be honest, 90% of viewing public does not have as much knowledge and/or love of Star Wars that you have.  Most people in my real life treated ep VII like any other movies, not an event 25 years in the making.  I bet most people barely remember the details of ep 3, much less ep 4, but they could still recognize the familiar beats.

You are entitled to your opinion. However, I understood the business decision to cast as wide of net as possible to get the most fans (new and old) for the new era of Star Wars.  In a lot of ways the success of ep 8 & 9 depends on a lot of people getting hooked on ep 7.

I just don't see why you had to remake a movie to do this. It's sad commentary if the only way to pack bums in seats is to give them something so similar to something they've already seen. But when this thing first opened, no one in the general public knew it was a remake. People went to see it because it had the words Star Wars in the title. There was no way they weren't going to make a fortune. By the time people see the movie and realize what it is they've already surrendered their money. This was probably the most risk free expenditure of money the world has ever seen. So they could easily have tried something new. I have some faith that an audience would have been just as warm to a new story than a copy. Then you wouldn't have a controversy heading into your next movie from annoying people who thought they were getting something different. Fingers crossed for the next one. I've said many times that if Luke utters the words "I am your father" in Episode 8 I'm getting up and walking out of the theatre. I'm not hard to please. I love Star Wars. It's not a blind love that Star Wars is infallible like the Pope and is supposedly above criticism. There is a wide space between blind worship and blind hate. I criticize from a warm loving place. The Force Awakens poked me in the ribs unexpectedly but I'll still be back, a little more wary but willing all the same.

[Darth_Raichu]

1 minute ago, jeff_14 said:

I just don't see why you had to remake a movie to do this. It's sad commentary if the only way to pack bums in seats is to give them something so similar to something they've already seen.

Lol this is a very sad time indeed.  Most just want something safe and familiar nowadays.  Just look at the Transformers movie franchise. It made tons of money by following basically the same scripts from movie to movie.  Original ideas have higher chances for failing (by definition).   So, based on the numbers, if I was a CFO of one of those Hollywood studios I would squash every inch of originality too

[BrickLegacy]

I can't wait for 2028 when they release Solo vs. Lando, A Star Wars Story.  Starring Ben Affleck and Kayne West.

[jeff_14]

55 minutes ago, Darth_Raichu said:

Lol this is a very sad time indeed.  Most just want something safe and familiar nowadays.  Just look at the Transformers movie franchise. It made tons of money by following basically the same scripts from movie to movie.  Original ideas have higher chances for failing (by definition).   So, based on the numbers, if I was a CFO of one of those Hollywood studios I would squash every inch of originality too

If anything, Star Wars is the ultimate insurance to take risks. If you believe the haters, Phantom Menace was a crime against humanity. It made over a billion dollars. Its sequels made a little less but still more than the original trilogy movies. If you can't take a risk with that kind of record, when can you?