STAR WARS VII - "The Force Awakens" - Movie Discussion

[templesweeper]

38 minutes ago, thekragle said:

I realized why I am not fond of the new star wars film. As a 40 year old I was excited to learn that Harrison Ford, Mark Hamill, and Carrie Fisher were coming back to reprise their roles as Han, Luke and Leia. And knowing that the three characters were in the movie I assumed the story would involve them heavily, but in the end the movie could have left all three out. 

It is as if Disney decided to wash their hands of George Lucas's 'old' Star Wars vision and start anew. (Which makes total sense - and cents = $)

Also ...If you have not noticed Harrison, Mark, and Carrie are old.

So Reboot the same story, as the original 1977 Star Wars, with young actors and Disney may be good for another 30 years.

Sadly, for me, the old characters were just used as a bridge to introduce the new ones. You did not need any of the three in this movie.

I'm about your age, and I was looking forward to all the things you mentioned as well.  But I'm not sure where your gripe is.  They DID give Ford a huge role in this film.  And his role was VITALLY important.  He set Rey on a new path.  He also was pivotal in completing Kylo Ren's journey to the dark side.  Hamill and Fisher obviously didn't have huge roles, but I can totally see Hamill getting his fare share in the next one or two films.  I see Leia just getting dabbled in here or there as necessary.

And you said it yourself, those three actors are old.  Disney needed to tell a NEW story with new characters for a new generation.  There's enough of the old (nostalgia) for us older fans, and the new is what is attractive to ALL audiences. 

 

[redcell]

1 hour ago, KShine said:

The credited "writers" of this movie should be ashamed - There is zero chance that they didn't realize what they were doing (plagiarism).

George Lucas wrote this movie.

Whatever story exists just fell into place, there is no hidden questions that anyone involved with this movie has any answer for yet (they don't even really know what is going to happen in 8 & 9). The writers of the remaining movies will just try to figure out clever ways to fill in the holes (and they know that the fans will all declare it brilliance, as if it explains why events in 7 had taken place).

Lucas did some things wrong, but he cared a lot. His movies (OT & prequels) had a story to tell. This movie was not part of a bigger story, it has no end goal.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but why should anyone give a s*** about any of that?  It's a new Star Wars movie and a damn good one.  Is it perfect?  No, but what movie is (other than maybe The Godfather)?  If you're really sitting around stewing about the originality of the story or any of that other stuff, I think you're just looking for something to be pissed off about and would only be happy if JJ Abrams had somehow figured out a way to magically transport you back in time so that you could see the original Star Wars movie for the first time without any knowledge of what you were about to see or preconceived notions.  Why anyone would be pissed off about a new Star Wars movie that is as good as The Force Awakens is beyond me.  Would you prefer that we not have the new Star Wars movies?

Edited December 24, 2015 by redcell

[jaisonline]

This article made me think of stories I've read in the past about Marcia Griffin (formally Lucas).

http://nypost.com/2015/12/18/george-lucas-brilliant-ex-wife-was-secret-weapon-in-original-star-wars/

"George Lucas may have been the brains behind Star Wars, but it was his ex-wife Marcia Lucas who gave the film its heart."

[redcell]

38 minutes ago, templesweeper said:

Firstly, regarding Star Killer base being unrealistic to build....remember, they didn't have to build the whole thing.  It was a planet first.  The weapon was merely built into it, so it wouldn't have taken as long. 

 

I just keep wondering when the Empire/First Order is going to have to file for bankruptcy after pouring a sh** ton of resources into these gigantic military infrastructure projects that they only get a single use out of.

And let's be real here...the Star Killer base is no more unrealistic to build than a Star Destroyer or the Millenium Falcon or any of the other technology in Star Wars...that's the nice thing about fantasy...the ability to shed the shackles of reality is what makes it so much fun.

[KShine]

6 minutes ago, redcell said:

Not to put too fine a point on it, but why should anyone give a s*** about any of that?  It's a new Star Wars movie and a damn good one.  Is it perfect?  No, but what movie is (other than maybe The Godfather)?  If you're really sitting around stewing about the originality of the story or any of that other stuff, I think you're just looking for something to be pissed off about and would only be happy if JJ Abrams had somehow figured out a way to magically transport you back in time so that you could see the original Star Wars movie for the first time without any knowledge of what you were about to see or preconceived notions.  Why anyone would ***** about a new Star Wars movie that is as good as The Force Awakens is beyond me.  Would you prefer that we not have the new Star Wars movies?

I loved the movie (for what it was) - and trust me, I am as thrilled as anyone that SW has returned (forever!).

It is just the BS ***kissing that kills me - this is not a work of brilliance (as many want to declare). That type of praise should be saved for when it is deserved.

[Darth_Raichu]

7 minutes ago, jaisonline said:

This article made me think of stories I've read in the past about Marcia Griffin (formally Lucas).

http://nypost.com/2015/12/18/george-lucas-brilliant-ex-wife-was-secret-weapon-in-original-star-wars/

I thought everyone knew the editors were responsible for making Star Wars a great movie.  One of the reasons ep1 sucked was GL fired the editor right off the bat and edit the movie himself (in addition to writing and directing)

[jaisonline]

57 minutes ago, Darth_Raichu said:

I thought everyone knew the editors were responsible for making Star Wars a great movie.  One of the reasons ep1 sucked was GL fired the editor right off the bat and edit the movie himself (in addition to writing and directing)

Yes. Both the editors and producers. E.g Gary Kurtz after ESB

Nobody really talks about Marcia though.

[templesweeper]

20 minutes ago, KShine said:

I loved the movie (for what it was) - and trust me, I am as thrilled as anyone that SW has returned (forever!).

It is just the BS ***kissing that kills me - this is not a work of brilliance (as many want to declare). That type of praise should be saved for when it is deserved.

But here's the thing.  Abrams had a HERCULEAN task before him:  Wash the filth of the prequels out of everyone's mouths, appease the old fans, draw in NEW fans, catch the spirit of the original trilogy but yet still make a modern film, tell the first part of a new story (the first film is always the hardest to pull off), oh, and don't forget, Disney will kill you if you destroy their 4.5 billion dollar investment.  All things considered, he did an amazing job.  I don't know who else I would have trusted to do what he did. 

12 minutes ago, jaisonline said:

 

I thought everyone knew the editors were responsible for making Star Wars a great movie.  One of the reasons ep1 sucked was GL fired the editor right off the bat and edit the movie himself (in addition to writing and directing)

Yes. Both the editors and producers. E.g Gary Kurtz

Nobody really talks about Marcia though.

I think Kurtz was actually gone after Empire Strikes Back. 

[redghostx]

Quote: They steal children from their families and train them as soldiers. 

So you're saying that they are the Borg?

Sorry, the Borg would have assimilated the WHOLE family, not just the kids

The Borg would also annihilate the parents if they had no use for them, so you never know. It was simply a comparison

[redghostx]

Ok, I watched this movie tonight and...

I've seen it before, it's simply a remix of Star Wars and the empire strikes back. There was nothing wrong with it, but it is simply very good, but not great, and NOT memorable or terribly surprising. It simply exists.

I much preferred what Mr. Abrams did with the Star Trek reboot.

Now I can go back and read through 80 pages of comments as I had seen and heard virtually nothing until I saw the movie (only one ten second trailer)

I thought as you did, mostly.  Until I saw it again and I was just able to absorb it.  It was strange for me watching a Star Wars movie that I basically didn't have memorized.  On second viewing I really found myself gripped by the performances and there are really some classic lines. I have talked to quite a few people whose opinion of the movie greatly increased on second and third viewings. 

I have to say that I shouldn't have to watch a movie a second time to enjoy it more, I should want to. In this case, I paid to watch the movie and don't want to have to pay a second time because I might like it more. It isn't a 'classic' and doesn't make me want to rush out and watch it again But it does make me want to watch episode VIII and I did enjoy it.

The standard for a great movie shouldn't be that it will grow on you, it should just be great.

[jaisonline]

14 minutes ago, templesweeper said:

 

I think Kurtz was actually gone after Empire Strikes Back. 

he was.  Kurtz not being involved is one of the reasons why ROTJ turned out "alright" and not "super duper"

[Alpinemaps]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but why should anyone give a s*** about any of that?  It's a new Star Wars movie and a damn good one.  Is it perfect?  No, but what movie is (other than maybe The Godfather)?  If you're really sitting around stewing about the originality of the story or any of that other stuff, I think you're just looking for something to be pissed off about and would only be happy if JJ Abrams had somehow figured out a way to magically transport you back in time so that you could see the original Star Wars movie for the first time without any knowledge of what you were about to see or preconceived notions.  Why anyone would ***** about a new Star Wars movie that is as good as The Force Awakens is beyond me.  Would you prefer that we not have the new Star Wars movies?

I loved the movie (for what it was) - and trust me, I am as thrilled as anyone that SW has returned (forever!).

It is just the BS ***kissing that kills me - this is not a work of brilliance (as many want to declare). That type of praise should be saved for when it is deserved.

Serious question - what is your definition of brilliance? Are you talking cinematic brilliance, a la The Godfather, or brilliance within the 7 Star Wars films?

While I rank ANH as my all-time favorite movie made after 1970, it doesn't hold a candle to my all-time favorite movie, To Kill A Mockingbird.

There's a definite difference, in my mind, between making a brilliant SW film and making a brilliant film. SW is the most expensive Saturday morning B-movie serial ever. And I judge it so.

I'm just curious to know if you are looking at it the same way or looking at it as part of a larger body of art.

[chipbee]

34 minutes ago, redcell said:

I just keep wondering when the Empire/First Order is going to have to file for bankruptcy after pouring a sh** ton of resources into these gigantic military infrastructure projects that they only get a single use out of.

Star killer base destroyed the entire republic, five planets no less. Thats one hell of a great return on investment.

[Darth_Raichu]

6 minutes ago, jaisonline said:

he was.  Kurtz not being involved is one of the reasons why ROTJ turned out "alright" and not "super duper"

Also, per one of the documentaries, Lucas was not satisfied with the director of RotJ and did a lot of backseat driving

[California92563]

I will say the one thing I didn't like about the movie was how little phasma was in it and each time that she was she was getting owned lol, hopefully they revamp her imagine in ep8 because I was really excited for that character 

[jbacunn]

11 minutes ago, California92563 said:

I will say the one thing I didn't like about the movie was how little phasma was in it and each time that she was she was getting owned lol, hopefully they revamp her imagine in ep8 because I was really excited for that character 

Still two movies to go. I think she will have a character arc just like the others and will be looking for her revenge on Finn. 

[jaisonline]

...so what ever happened to that force field smashing "hammer" weapon used by the resistance ?  it was mentioned in fan theories, spoilers, leaks and "The Art of Star Wars: The Force Awakens "

that was a good book by the way.  interesting to see how things evolved since 2013.

The Art of Star Wars: The Force Awakens link =

http://www.amazon.com/Art-Star-Wars-Force-Awakens/dp/1419717804?

 this book does contain a handful of pics that were among the storyboard and painting leaks in 2014.  (mentioned in the early pages of this thread). thus some hardcore fans and web sites really have "in the know" spies since i doubt these were disney supplied leaks.

 

btw, some of this is already known.  some rejected things from the movie are being used in rebels.

 

[templesweeper]

45 minutes ago, redghostx said:

I have to say that I shouldn't have to watch a movie a second time to enjoy it more, I should want to. In this case, I paid to watch the movie and don't want to have to pay a second time because I might like it more. It isn't a 'classic' and doesn't make me want to rush out and watch it again But it does make me want to watch episode VIII and I did enjoy it.

The standard for a great movie shouldn't be that it will grow on you, it should just be great.

And I have to say that I completely disagree.  There are MANY movies that grow on you with time.  It's like something has to click and you "get it."  Star Wars is hyper-analyzed to death, and so a large percentage of the audience goes in the first time (myself included) almost scared it will be bad, and just analyzing instead of absorbing.  My first viewing was analytical, and on my second viewing I just absorbed....and I LOVED it.  I didn't quite LOVE it the first time. 

[templesweeper]

7 minutes ago, jaisonline said:

...so what ever happened to that force field smashing "hammer" weapon used by the resistance ?  it was mentioned in fan theories, spoilers, leaks and "The Art of Star Wars: The Force Awakens "

that was a good book by the way.  interesting to see how things evolved since 2013.

The Art of Star Wars: The Force Awakens link =

http://www.amazon.com/Art-Star-Wars-Force-Awakens/dp/1419717804?

btw, this book does contain a handful of pics that were among the storyboard and painting leaks in 2014.  (mentioned in the early pages of this thread). thus some hardcore fans and web sites really have "in the know" spies since i doubt these were disney supplied leaks.

 

That is a great book.  I liked how they showed you the artwork in chronological order, as the story progressed.  It was interesting to see how much of the story was just based on concept and design. 

And if you guys think that The Force Awakens was too much like A New Hope, you should see how the FIRST draft of the script set up the beginning.  It was an almost frame-for-frame shot of the Star Destroyer flying over the camera after the opening crawl.  They scrapped that. 

Also, Rey's name was originally Kira.  And Finn was white.  And I think his name was Sam. 

 

[templesweeper]

24 minutes ago, California92563 said:

I will say the one thing I didn't like about the movie was how little phasma was in it and each time that she was she was getting owned lol, hopefully they revamp her imagine in ep8 because I was really excited for that character 

Kathleen Kennedy already said Phasma will be more heavily featured in Episode 8.  They have actual plans for her, which is nice.  I was fine with her screen time.  I just would have liked to seen her actually do something cool.  I think they got caught there.  They had no idea she would be such a popular character going in.  She was NEVER meant to be a main character.  But then when the promo shots of her came out everyone thought she looked awesome, and then they were like, "Dang, we should have given her more to do in the film."  So, it wasn't really their fault.  It was more the  promo department's fault for pushing her so much pre-release that we expected more.  Heck, Phasma was originally a guy.  The whole character was very last-minute.

[California92563]

10 minutes ago, templesweeper said:

Kathleen Kennedy already said Phasma will be more heavily featured in Episode 8.  They have actual plans for her, which is nice.  I was fine with her screen time.  I just would have liked to seen her actually do something cool.  I think they got caught there.  They had no idea she would be such a popular character going in.  She was NEVER meant to be a main character.  But then when the promo shots of her came out everyone thought she looked awesome, and then they were like, "Dang, we should have given her more to do in the film."  So, it wasn't really their fault.  It was more the  promo department's fault for pushing her so much pre-release that we expected more.  Heck, Phasma was originally a guy.  The whole character was very last-minute.

Yeah that's what I think most of it was, was that she was so heavily focused in all of the promos and merchandise and to see her for so little time it was kinda weird but I can understand it since they only had so much screen time. I'm hopeful for ep8 where she gets revenge on Finn and Chewie for stuffing her In a garbage chute  

Edited December 24, 2015 by California92563

[Darth_Raichu]

10 minutes ago, California92563 said:

Yeah that's what I think most of it was, was that she was so heavily focused in all of the promos and merchandise and to see her for so little time it was kinda weird but I can understand it since they only had so much screen time. I'm hopeful for ep8 where she gets revenge on Finn and Chewie for stuffing her In a garbage chute  

Oh c'mon, shiny armor = cool.  Promo and merchandising departments knew that immediately.  

Although I am curious how many FO people escaped the base.  Did most abandon the base as soon as the solar thingy was destroyed? How did they leave?  I imagined most TIEs were already deployed to fight the Resistance.  It was a planet base so it should not have any escape pods.  Did everyone just get beamed up (live long and prosper ) to the Star Destroyer? 

 

[California92563]

12 minutes ago, Darth_Raichu said:

Oh c'mon, shiny armor = cool.  Promo and merchandising departments knew that immediately.  

Although I am curious how many FO people escaped the base.  Did most abandon the base as soon as the solar thingy was destroyed? How did they leave?  I imagined most TIEs were already deployed to fight the Resistance.  It was a planet base so it should not have any escape pods.  Did everyone just get beamed up (live long and prosper ) to the Star Destroyer? 

 

I'm curious about that as well, I found it funny how that one lieutenant was leaving his post because hux was nowhere to be seen, at least he had the right idea  

[Battrax]

18 minutes ago, California92563 said:

I'm curious about that as well, I found it funny how that one lieutenant was leaving his post because hux was nowhere to be seen, at least he had the right idea  

Maybe we'd be crediting the First order with too much sensible military thinking but I would imagine they would have had some contingency plans for evacuation with transports ready to go...

[pete411]

3 hours ago, thekragle said:

I realized why I am not fond of the new star wars film. As a 40 year old I was excited to learn that Harrison Ford, Mark Hamill, and Carrie Fisher were coming back to reprise their roles as Han, Luke and Leia. And knowing that the three characters were in the movie I assumed the story would involve them heavily, but in the end the movie could have left all three out. 

It is as if Disney decided to wash their hands of George Lucas's 'old' Star Wars vision and start anew. (Which makes total sense - and cents = $)

Also ...If you have not noticed Harrison, Mark, and Carrie are old.

So Reboot the same story, as the original 1977 Star Wars, with young actors and Disney may be good for another 30 years.

Sadly, for me, the old characters were just used as a bridge to introduce the new ones. You did not need any of the three in this movie.

I think you needed Han in the movie. He sets up the villain as a true baddie. I have friends with kids that loved the OT and they've all proclaimed their hate for Kylo Ren. They want his head on a plate. Luke will be in the next movie for sure. Also, did you honestly think that the old characters would be the main characters in the new films? There was no way that was going to happen.