STAR WARS VII - "The Force Awakens" - Movie Discussion

[Alpinemaps]

Theory I heard thrown out today is that Snoke is Luke's clone.  From the hand he left on Cloud City.  I don't buy into that at all, but that's something I haven't heard up until today.

[Darth_Raichu]

41 minutes ago, templesweeper said:

There is an interesting theory out there that Rey is Luke's clone.

Whaat? Rey is actually a man? Or Luke was actually a woman?  That would cause so much confusion and complaints, there is no way Disney is going to allow it

[templesweeper]

7 minutes ago, Alpinemaps said:

Theory I heard thrown out today is that Snoke is Luke's clone.  From the hand he left on Cloud City.  I don't buy into that at all, but that's something I haven't heard up until today.

I don't know.  I know clones can have accelerated growth/aging but I think that is just to get them from childhood to adulthood.  Rex in the show Rebels seems to have aged normally.  Snoke seems to be dang old.  I still just think he's Plagueis because his theme music is exactly the same as the music used in Episode 3 when the story of Plagueis is told. 

[Alpinemaps]

16 minutes ago, templesweeper said:

I don't know.  I know clones can have accelerated growth/aging but I think that is just to get them from childhood to adulthood.  Rex in the show Rebels seems to have aged normally.  Snoke seems to be dang old.  I still just think he's Plagueis because his theme music is exactly the same as the music used in Episode 3 when the story of Plagueis is told. 

I personally don't like the idea of Snoke = Luke's clone.  I do like the idea of Snoke = Plagueis, though.

Here's another interesting thing to consider:  Snoke was pushing for Luke to be found.  However, he instructed Hux to have BB-8 destroyed, if they couldn't get the map.  In essence, he doesn't necessarily want Luke destroyed, but he wants Luke out of the picture.  If Snoke can't find Luke, then no one should be able to.  It was Ren that was obsessed with finding Luke.

[jbacunn]

14 hours ago, Darth_Raichu said:

Hmm, if I need to read the books to understand the plotlines, I will have to knock a few stars off TFA.  A good movie should not need outside materials to explain itself.

 

TFA did not go into any of the politics at all really. I had to read a couple of internet sites to understand what was going on. While this is frustrating, I understand why they just didn't go there. Lucas tried to telll this part of the story in Episode 1 and things didn't go well.  We want action and adventure in Star Wars, not a politics lecture. 

[templesweeper]

7 minutes ago, jbacunn said:

TFA did not go into any of the politics at all really. I had to read a couple of internet sites to understand what was going on. While this is frustrating, I understand why they just didn't go there. Lucas tried to telll this part of the story in Episode 1 and things didn't go well.  We want action and adventure in Star Wars, not a politics lecture. 

If you really pay attention to General Hux during is crazy speech, it actually does reveal the state of the New Republic right there, and how destroying the five planets basically eliminated their military threat aside from the black-ops Resistance. 

[Darth_Raichu]

18 minutes ago, templesweeper said:

If you really pay attention to General Hux during is crazy speech, it actually does reveal the state of the New Republic right there, and how destroying the five planets basically eliminated their military threat aside from the black-ops Resistance. 

I must have missed the detail regarding New Republic military powers.  Actually I did not know this detail until I read some of the reviews.  The movie could have emphasized more how devastating the attack was.  Perhaps the people on the resistance side could have panicked a little, to me they reacted as if the destruction of those planets was not that big of a deal.  

[templesweeper]

11 minutes ago, Darth_Raichu said:

I must have missed the detail regarding New Republic military powers.  Actually I did not know this detail until I read some of the reviews.  The movie could have emphasized more how devastating the attack was.  Perhaps the people on the resistance side could have panicked a little, to me they reacted as if the destruction of those planets was not that big of a deal.  

I missed it as well on the first viewing.  But listen carefully to what Hux says next time.  And on the one shot of the planets exploding, you can see military craft in space blowing up on the left side of the screen. 

[zskid00]

I think that's what gets me with the reuse of the Death Star in TFA.  I mean how fair is this fight when one side is just obliterating planets?  Five planets wiped out and the First Order is back on top just like that.  I really don't like the use of this type of super weapon as a plot point because it shifts the dynamics of the entire universe on a dime.  Not to mention how poorly it reflects upon the state of the New Republic/Resistance that they couldn't figure out what was going on while this was under construction.  When you can travel anywhere in the universe at warp speed in almost no time, I really don't see how the First Order could hide this from anybody.

Edited December 23, 2015 by zskid00

[Alpinemaps]

10 minutes ago, zskid00 said:

I think that's what gets me with the reuse of the Death Star in TFA.  I mean how fair is this fight when one side is just obliterating planets?  Five planets wiped out and the First Order is back on top just like that.  I really don't like the use of this type of super weapon as a plot point because it shifts the dynamics of the entire universe on a dime.  Not to mention how poorly it reflects upon the state of the New Republic/Resistance that they couldn't figure out what was going on while this was under construction.  When you can travel anywhere in the universe at warp speed in almost no time, I really don't see how the First Order could hide this from anybody.

To their credit, though, the First Order was sitting in "the Unknown Regions" which were parts of the galaxy that were unexplored (by the Republic / Empire / New Republic).  Even if your enemy goes off into Unknown Regions, if you're busy trying to get a Republic stood back up, and you've demilitarized yourself, you're not about to go poking around in that region of space to figure out what's going on.

[trekgate502]

If you think about it this way well terminator, back to the future, transformers and Star Trek all have original plots every time (not)

it is Star Wars I just let it move around me through me and enjoy

i think the next one will be entirely new

[exciter1]

7 minutes ago, trekgate502 said:

If you think about it this way well terminator, back to the future, transformers and Star Trek all have original plots every time (not)

it is Star Wars I just let it move around me through me and enjoy

i think the next one will be entirely new

Don't watch "Terminator: Genisys", OY VEY! 

Oh, I see the "not" in there, I agree.

[zskid00]

Then I have to ask why in the world would the New Republic consider demilitarizing when the remnants of the Empire were still a very real threat, they had no Jedi to protect them, and everyone and their mother can own spaceships, blasters, etc?  This wasn't addressed or answered in the movie and maybe that wasn't the best place for it, but this universe is not at all what I expected it to be based on where we last left off after ROTJ.

Having said that, I was entertained and enjoyed the movie, but some of these things are really nagging me.  I feel that Disney, JJ, and the crew were trying very hard to capture the feel of the OT almost to a fault and the plot was secondary to this and suffers from some inconsistency.

Edited December 23, 2015 by zskid00

[exciter1]

5 minutes ago, zskid00 said:

Then I have to ask why in the world would the New Republic consider demilitarizing when the remnants of the Empire were still a very real threat, they had no Jedi to protect them, and everyone and their mother can own spaceships, blasters, etc?  None of these things were addressed or answered in the movie and maybe that wasn't the best place for it, but this universe is not at all what I expected it to be based on where we last left off after ROTJ.

Yes, you'd think they could come up with something to convey the rise of the First Order.  "These fans love Star Wars, they won't know any different..."

[trekgate502]

15 minutes ago, zskid00 said:

Then I have to ask why in the world would the New Republic consider demilitarizing when the remnants of the Empire were still a very real threat, they had no Jedi to protect them, and everyone and their mother can own spaceships, blasters, etc?  This wasn't addressed or answered in the movie and maybe that wasn't the best place for it, but this universe is not at all what I expected it to be based on where we last left off after ROTJ.

Having said that, I was entertained and enjoyed the movie, but some of these things are really nagging me.  I feel that Disney, JJ, and the crew were trying very hard to capture the feel of the OT almost to a fault and the plot was secondary to this and suffers from some inconsistency.

I thought the new republic was highly militarized. But they did not want their fleet involved in dealing with the first order that they thought was an insignificant threat way out in the outer rim and Leia knew the real concern and thus because they did not want to fight a war they thought was a nuisance they secretly funded the resistance just in case. I did not take the new republic as pacifists I took them as unconcerned with trivial matters,  Did anyone else think this ?  Thought someone in the movie talked about the entire fleet being wiped out. Perhaps I was over watching Star Trek I by JJ

Edited December 23, 2015 by trekgate502

[Bold-Arrow]

One  would assume they would have better defences in places. Even if they were ignorant of star killer and didn't expect 5 planets to go poof at the same time , a defensive paparmeter of some sorts would make more sense to me . 

[Darth_Raichu]

23 minutes ago, zskid00 said:

Then I have to ask why in the world would the New Republic consider demilitarizing when the remnants of the Empire were still a very real threat, they had no Jedi to protect them, and everyone and their mother can own spaceships, blasters, etc?  This wasn't addressed or answered in the movie and maybe that wasn't the best place for it, but this universe is not at all what I expected it to be based on where we last left off after ROTJ.

This is the weakness of the director IMHO.  Just like new ST movies, there were actions after actions happening on screen in quick succession. There was not enough time to slow down and learn more about the universe.

[thoroakenfelder]

After World War 1, there was a movement in the United States to demilitarize. The carnage and loss of life in the first World War made Americans want to reject the military and getting involved in any foreign wars. When Pearl harbor was bombed, and the US declared war, we had the 15th largest military in the world. Anyone who thinks that that galaxy wasn't tired of war and planets being blown up and slaves taken, would probably be mistaken. Virtual peace for most of 30 years can erode military preparedness. The old republic didn't have a military or even a police force, they relied on the Jedis under their own auspices to keep the peace. there was no government mandate or deputization.

[exciter1]

8 minutes ago, Darth_Raichu said:

This is the weakness of the director IMHO.  Just like new ST movies, there were actions after actions happening on screen in quick succession. There was not enough time to slow down and learn more about the universe.

I really did think it certainly moved at a break neck pace.

[templesweeper]

32 minutes ago, zskid00 said:

Then I have to ask why in the world would the New Republic consider demilitarizing when the remnants of the Empire were still a very real threat, they had no Jedi to protect them, and everyone and their mother can own spaceships, blasters, etc?  This wasn't addressed or answered in the movie and maybe that wasn't the best place for it, but this universe is not at all what I expected it to be based on where we last left off after ROTJ.

Having said that, I was entertained and enjoyed the movie, but some of these things are really nagging me.  I feel that Disney, JJ, and the crew were trying very hard to capture the feel of the OT almost to a fault and the plot was secondary to this and suffers from some inconsistency.

You have to remember, WE just left off at Return of the Jedi.  The world moved on.  I know in the books Mon Mothma wanted to demilitarize and Leia didn't.  But I'm OK with the movie not having to explain everything.  They're got two more films.  If you think about it, we were just thrust into the world in A New Hope with very little exposition.  We never saw the Emperor.  He was only ever just mentioned.  There were lots of details left in the dark.  LOTS.  Hindsight is 20/20

[templesweeper]

19 minutes ago, Darth_Raichu said:

This is the weakness of the director IMHO.  Just like new ST movies, there were actions after actions happening on screen in quick succession. There was not enough time to slow down and learn more about the universe.

And what?  We want more boring scenes of people sitting around in a circle talking about trade federations and a galactic senate?  You call it a weakness, I call it a strength.  Abrams injected actual LIFE into the movie.  This is why people are absolutely LOVING this movie.  It's a blast.  It's actually fun!

[Battrax]

15 minutes ago, templesweeper said:

And what?  We want more boring scenes of people sitting around in a circle talking about trade federations and a galactic senate?  You call it a weakness, I call it a strength.  Abrams injected actual LIFE into the movie.  This is why people are absolutely LOVING this movie.  It's a blast.  It's actually fun!

Lucas couldn't have been trusted to make a combination of House of Cards, Babylon 5 and Battlestar Galactica (reimagined) without it just being confused and tedious... which it was (see: prequel trilogy). In the end, this is more a fantasy franchise than hard sci-fi, it just doesn't seem to fit it.

[pete411]

LMAO at all the discussion of why didn't the New Republic do this and that. Why didn't they make it so there was peace and justice in the galaxy and there would be no movie? The franchise is called STAR WARS. Just a bunch of stick in the muds.

This is a fun movie. Kids will love it. Girls are going absolutely bonkers over it which gives it a chance to topple Titanic. They've just increased the already gigantic fan base by a billion. Totally worth it for them to alienate a few nerds in the process.

[Bold-Arrow]

^^^^ .................

[Darth_Raichu]

24 minutes ago, templesweeper said:

And what?  We want more boring scenes of people sitting around in a circle talking about trade federations and a galactic senate?  You call it a weakness, I call it a strength.  Abrams injected actual LIFE into the movie.  This is why people are absolutely LOVING this movie.  It's a blast.  It's actually fun!

Nope, just a few verbal reactions from the resistance people as to the ramification of the 5 planets getting blown up.  This was too important for just 1 explanation from 1 character.  Even you missed this on the 1st viewing.     

Also, a couple more seconds of uninterrupted grieving of a particular character, instead of half second shown on screen.