STAR WARS VII - "The Force Awakens" - Movie Discussion

[thoroakenfelder]

8 hours ago, Mathew said:

Anyone else a little concerned that Ep. 7 will be too "fan boyish"  and nostalgic?  There's something that I can't quite put my finger on after watching all of the trailers.  It looks good, but I wonder if some of the Lucas bashers will exit the theater opening night scratching their heads thinking that it was missing his touch.  I'm re-watching the Prequels with my boys and my opinion has softened somewhat towards them.  The Prequels are still kind of soul-sucking in the stilted dialog and exposition department but overall not bad.  I think if Ep. 1 was a 90 minute adventure romp, even with Jar-Jar it would have been a much better film.  Ep. 2 has some great moments such as the sequence where Anakin tries to rescue his mother.  We haven't watched the rest of the films yet but plan on it before opening weekend.  

I have never really thought that Episode 1 was a terrible movie. It drags in places, and some of the dialogue is terrible. George didn't get his actors to do their best. Instead of "faster, more intense" he seemed to go with slower and somewhat bored. In 2002 when AotC came out, he made it an almost entirely pointless movie. Episode 2 is the hardest slog for me. I can't watch Episode 2 without drifting away to do something else. The stilted dialogue in so many scenes coupled with long, uninteresting scenes of 2 people doing nothing just kills any fun that's in it. The CGI is somewhat primitive, but it's everywhere. Ewan Mcgregor, Christopher Lee and Ian Mcdiarmid try very hard to lift it up, but Natalie Portman and Hayden Christiansen are the anchors, literal and figurative, of this film. Lucas hinged the entire film on their love story, and it is more like brain damaged stalker and marionette. The things they say are stilted and awkward and they have no chemistry. That entire fight sequence at the end, with the flashing lightsabers to hide who is actually fighting, and then the CGI fight between Yoda and Dooku has no realism to it. (I know, it's a space movie where a small frog guy is going against a geriatric with lightning hands, but there's no credence.) After that mess of a movie, Episode 1 looks good, even if it is a prologue to the entire saga.

Revenge of the Sith is the clear winner of the three. The CGI is a lot better, and it had better be, since the movie is so reliant upon it. Ewan and Ian deliver solid performances. A lot of plot gets crammed in, even though there's still those awkward scenes between FrankenJedi and Marionette. Actually Hayden is awkward and stilted with everyone. Almost everything he says for 2 movies has an awkward rhythm and dead delivery. Meanwhile Padme becomes the most useless female character in the series, doing nothing but waiting around for her man. Then, when her man leaves her, she just can't take it and dies. It's not poignant, it's ridiculous. If you take away most of Padme and Limit Anakin, and ignore the buffoonish Grievous, it's a pretty fun movie. You know, apart from the long walk and stop and talk in CG corridors.

[biking_tiger]

So in other words, they were terrible. I'm sorry--but three movies in one of the best-loved franchises of all time shouldn't need so much defense. 

[Sauromosis]

I kindof agree Mathew.  The movie looks like it's going to be great based on every clip I've seen, but it also looks like the story line will be almost identical to New Hope, almost a straight up remake.  I realized this last night after watching New Hope with the kids.  Spoiler alert:

 

A droid is hiding a secret message

A loner on a desert planet finds it

She has jedi parentage but doesn't know it yet

She bumps into a new friend (Finn instead of Han) and the millenium falcon

Meets a wise master (Maz Kanata) who then dies because a sith lord kills her (by exploding her castle instead of fight)

-Wouldn't be surprised of there was some sort of trash compacter like scene in Maz's castle-

Rebels attack a death star and destroy it (this is the most blatant ripoff, I can't believe they did this, their excuse is that it can destroy a solar system instead of a planet)

A second mentor figure is killed.

I wouldn't be surprised if the filmmakers didn't intend to do a remake but it just accidentally happened.  They borrowed a couple elements from Empire, namely Yoda/Maz and the introduction of Snoke who is the same character as the emperor but they put him in the first movie instead of the second. [/spoiler]

 

Can someone put the spoiler tags on my post?    I tried it with brackets

 

Edited December 12, 2015 by jaisonline

[exciter1]

20 minutes ago, biking_tiger said:

So in other words, they were terrible. I'm sorry--but three movies in one of the best-loved franchises of all time shouldn't need so much defense. 

Terrible or not, there's enough good content to keep me coming back and watching them again and again.

[thoroakenfelder]

21 minutes ago, biking_tiger said:

So in other words, they were terrible. I'm sorry--but three movies in one of the best-loved franchises of all time shouldn't need so much defense. 

not really defense, balanced analysis. I hit most of the flaws, as I see them. I'm just not as willing to throw out the entire thing, because I do enjoy some parts.

[jaisonline]

Do use spoiler tags do the follow without the spaces

[ spoiler ]

spoiler like Vader is Luke & Leia's dad

[ / spoiler ]

[exciter1]

4 minutes ago, jaisonline said:

Do use spoiler tags do the follow without the spaces

[ spoiler ]

spoiler like Vader is Luke & Leia's dad

[ / spoile r]

What?  Say it isn't so!!!

[Sauromosis]

I did exactly that, it only indented but did not apply the spoiler feature.

[jaisonline]

6 minutes ago, exciter1 said:

What?  Say it isn't so!!!

Yeah, I had no idea.  That spoiler gets me every time like Groundhog Day. I always thought Vader and The Mouse Droid were siblings.  Sort a like Arnold S and Danny D in Twins.

6 minutes ago, sauromosis said:

I did exactly that, it only indented but did not apply the spoiler feature.

Not sure.  I just edited your post like I always do with my spoiler ones.  

 

[thoroakenfelder]

19 minutes ago, jaisonline said:

Do use spoiler tags do the follow without the spaces

[ spoiler ]

spoiler like Vader is Luke & Leia's dad

[ / spoiler ]

Wait, Luke AND Leia's dad? that means, they're brother and sister? Whoa, mind blown.

[MarleyMoose]

Lets hope they don't hook up before they find out...

[dcdfan]

I can't recall if I've said this before (I know I've been thinking it since the day I read they bought it) but I think Disney may have grossly underpaid Lucas for the franchise...

[Guest brickcrazyhouse]

I'm betting/guessing they have already recouped the cost of buying a gold mine

[Sauromosis]

11 hours ago, dcdfan said:

I can't recall if I've said this before (I know I've been thinking it since the day I read they bought it) but I think Disney may have grossly underpaid Lucas for the franchise...

You are a smart person: http://www.wired.com/2015/12/disney-star-wars-return-on-investment/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/hayleycuccinello/2015/12/14/inside-star-wars-5-billion-merchandise-motherlode-the-10-weirdest-items-for-jedi-wannabees/

 

 

[jeff_14]

7 minutes ago, sauromosis said:

You are a smart person: http://www.wired.com/2015/12/disney-star-wars-return-on-investment/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/hayleycuccinello/2015/12/14/inside-star-wars-5-billion-merchandise-motherlode-the-10-weirdest-items-for-jedi-wannabees/

 

 

Lucas was the genius in that deal. He got paid mostly in Disney stock, which makes him one of their largest shareholders and he now gets a piece not just of Star Wars but of Marvel and Pixar and princesses, etc., plus the huge increase in the stock price, whereas Lucasarts/film etc. were private companies so there was no stock bump to exploit as there was in the markets.

[Sauromosis]

Financially, yes, but creatively this was an admission that he messed up with the prequels.

It has to hurt to see something that you created be put on life support and rescued by a different company and director.

[jeff_14]

18 minutes ago, sauromosis said:

Financially, yes, but creatively this was an admission that he messed up with the prequels.

It has to hurt to see something that you created be put on life support and rescued by a different company and director.

I disagree. He's well into retirement age, and the prequels were hardly failures. They're amongst the top grossing films of all time. An entire generation of people including my son grew up with them and for them that is Star Wars and they don't understand why people my age bash them so much. Those movies were never meant to be exactly like the movies you saw when you were 8. How could they be when you're now 40 or whatever. I worry the same thing is going to happen with these new ones. People are going to be expecting it to be exactly like the old movies and are going to be disappointed the moment something unfamiliar appears on screen, and this despite what appears to be a lot of effort to recreate the original movies. The vehicles are the same, the main characters are the same or very similar, there's even well sourced suggestions of a Death Star like weapon. I enjoyed the prequels because they were different. Just Jar Jar was too different.

 

[Sauromosis]

I don't buy the age based argument at all.  A good movie with this type of mythical storyline will appeal to all ages...the first three did.  

Poor writing and acting such as the love scenes and the jedi council scenes in the prequels are the definition of poorly made movies.  Natalie Portman said it almost ruined her career and she was not taken seriously.  Jake Lloyd's life was ruined.

Working without collaborators, Lucas didn't have anyone to edit his ideas.  Bringing in Kasdan on the new one makes me feel pretty good about the story.  

 

[trekgate502]

I am going Thursday, going Friday and my family just asked to go again on New Year's day

This new movie will be a slam dunk

Take it to the Bank

[thoroakenfelder]

22 minutes ago, sauromosis said:

I don't buy the age based argument at all.  A good movie with this type of mythical storyline will appeal to all ages...the first three did.  

Poor writing and acting such as the love scenes and the jedi council scenes in the prequels are the definition of poorly made movies.  Natalie Portman said it almost ruined her career and she was not taken seriously.  Jake Lloyd's life was ruined.

Working without collaborators, Lucas didn't have anyone to edit his ideas.  Bringing in Kasdan on the new one makes me feel pretty good about the story.  

 

I'm not convinced Natalie would have had much of a career either way. After watching several behind the scenes videos of TPM last night, I feel like Lucas almost picked Lloyd on a hunch. He mentioned several times how he'd have to cut and paste every scene with Jake from multiple takes. A truly capable director can get some passable performances from poor actors, just as a bad one can bring down good actors. A good actor can shine in a bad role. I think that there's blame to go around.

Edited December 14, 2015 by thoroakenfelder

[jeff_14]

13 minutes ago, sauromosis said:

I don't buy the age based argument at all.  A good movie with this type of mythical storyline will appeal to all ages...the first three did.  

Poor writing and acting such as the love scenes and the jedi council scenes in the prequels are the definition of poorly made movies.  Natalie Portman said it almost ruined her career and she was not taken seriously.  Jake Lloyd's life was ruined.

Working without collaborators, Lucas didn't have anyone to edit his ideas.  Bringing in Kasdan on the new one makes me feel pretty good about the story.  

 

The prequels appealed to all ages as well. My point is that the haters are almost exclusively people who grew up with Star Wars that were expecting a recycled version of that story set in the past, the ones who claim Lucas raped their childhood. I was of that age group but did not expect that and enjoyed them immensely. He added to my childhood and gave my son a similar experience. When the originals came out they were widely panned in the reviews. They were considered atrocious despite the pop culture love. Very few movies have as horrible acting and dialogue as the original Star Wars films. That part was at least consistent between the trilogies. 

I do agree that Lucas needed help but I think it was in the director's chair and not the ideas department. Storywise the prequels are ambitious, interwoven by design, and have fantastic plot points. What was needed was a director that could tell that story without pandering to kids, like with Jar Jar and the odd placed attempts at humour like the C3PO scene in the Geonosis factory. 

[Battrax]

36 minutes ago, jeff_14 said:

I disagree. He's well into retirement age, and the prequels were hardly failures. They're amongst the top grossing films of all time. An entire generation of people including my son grew up with them and for them that is Star Wars and they don't understand why people my age bash them so much. Those movies were never meant to be exactly like the movies you saw when you were 8. How could they be when you're now 40 or whatever. I worry the same thing is going to happen with these new ones. People are going to be expecting it to be exactly like the old movies and are going to be disappointed the moment something unfamiliar appears on screen, and this despite what appears to be a lot of effort to recreate the original movies. The vehicles are the same, the main characters are the same or very similar, there's even well sourced suggestions of a Death Star like weapon. I enjoyed the prequels because they were different. Just Jar Jar was too different.

 

Frankly, even the best one so far, Empire Strikes Back, is a pretty poor film when looked at objectively. A high budget fantasy b-movie, really.

[Ed Mack]

21 minutes ago, trekgate502 said:

I am going Thursday, going Friday and my family just asked to go again on New Year's day

This new movie will be a slam dunk

Take it to the Bank

I had tickets for Thursday night, first show, IMAX-3D with Jeff and I found out my son had his Christmas show that same night.  Now I am going at 2 AM.  LOL.  I am such a loser!

[jeff_14]

8 minutes ago, Ed Mack said:

I had tickets for Thursday night, first show, IMAX-3D with Jeff and I found out my son had his Christmas show that same night.  Now I am going at 2 AM.  LOL.  I am such a loser!

Not at all. That's a good dad award right there. You're still seeing it before 99.99999999999% of the world. I have to wait until Monday morning for my chance in IMAX 3D with my son. I could have seen it earlier solo but this is my first chance to see a new Star Wars movie on the big screen with my son and wouldn't trade that for a Falcon sized load of spice.

Edited December 14, 2015 by jeff_14

[exciter1]

7PM Thursday for me and the guys.  I'll take my son on Saturday.