STAR WARS VII - "The Force Awakens" - Movie Discussion

[BoomBoomFlash]

On Sunday, November 08, 2015 10:12:48, zskid00 said:

If there are too many familial links to these main characters I will be disappointed.  This is a huge universe.  And the siblings/twins separated has already been played out with Luke and Leia.  Again, I will be disappointed if this same plot device is reused here.

In addition to the family story spoiled above at pg. 44, I see also an individual from Yoda's civilization appearing in the movie, it is Maz Kanata.

[exciter1]

[jaisonline]

More info revealed.

http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/632387-j-j-abrams-talks-luke-skywalkers-mythic-status-in-star-wars-the-force-awakens#/slide/1

J.J. Abrams opens up about Luke Skywalker’s status in Star Wars: The Force Awakens

We’ve heard a lot about the characters of Star Wars: The Force Awakens these past few days, but there’s one that has been on everyone’s mind given his lack of appearances in the marketing so far – Luke Skywalker. Speaking with EW, director J.J. Abrams opened up about how Luke’s path in the context of the film was a big draw for him to direct, namely how everyone else in the movie sees Luke. 

“It was the thing that struck me the hardest, which was the idea that doing a story that took place nearly 40 years after Jedi meant that there would be a generation for whom Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, and Leia would be as good as myth,” Abrams says. “They’d be as old and as mythic as the tale of King Arthur. They would be characters who they may have heard of, but maybe not. They’d be characters who they might believe existed, or just sounded like a fairy tale.”

He goes on to use Daisy Ridley’s Rey as an example, what would a scavenger that lives along on a desolate planet think of the man the helped bring down the Empire all those decades ago?

“To someone who is living alone and struggling without a formal education or support system, who knows what that person in the literal middle of nowhere would have ever heard about any of these things, or would ever know, and how much that person would have to infer and piece together on their own,” Abrams says. “So the idea that someone like that would begin to learn that the Jedi were real, and that the Force exists, and that there’s a power in the universe that sounds fanciful but is actually possible, was an incredibly intriguing notion.”

As revealed earlier this week, John Boyega’s Finn knows very well who Luke Skywalker is thanks to his Stormtrooper training, but the journey of the film is what will make him potentially change his mind, especially after he gets a hold of Luke’s original lightsaber.

“For Finn, he’s been raised from the ashes of the Empire,” says Boyega. “He’s been taught about Luke Skywalker, he knows about his history. For him it’s like joining the army and then learning about one of the great enemies of your country. It has that effect on him. But in terms of the Force, and the magical stuff that happens, that is the point where Finn kind of questions what is what. What is the Force, what part does Luke Skywalker play in all of this?”

 

[BoomBoomFlash]

1 hour ago, exciter1 said:

 

The more the better. What do the articles report? Did we get it right? 

[gregpj]

1 hour ago, jaisonline said:

 "story that took place nearly 40 years after Jedi"

“They’d be as old and as mythic as the tale of King Arthur. ”

If he really said that that's damn funny. A bit of a stretch given that the tale of King Arthur is currently closing in on 1500 years old... not 40.

[Migration]

12 minutes ago, gregpj said:

If he really said that that's damn funny. A bit of a stretch given that the tale of King Arthur is currently closing in on 1500 years old... not 40.

1500 is the new 40.

[exciter1]

More new footage, courtesy of ABC's TFA preview...

[Darth_Raichu]

3 hours ago, exciter1 said:

More new footage, courtesy of ABC's TFA preview...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=27TiaemuExo&feature=share

I have a feeling the trailers released so far only showed the first 1/3 of the movie...   excellent 

 

[Darth_Raichu]

4 hours ago, jaisonline said:

a story that took place nearly 40 years after Jedi meant that there would be a generation for whom Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, and Leia would be as good as myth

I read that as Luke failed to spread his Jedi way.  40 years is more than enough to find and train a couple of Padawans to be Jedi Knights

[Locutus001]

50 minutes ago, Darth_Raichu said:

I read that as Luke failed to spread his Jedi way.  40 years is more than enough to find and train a couple of Padawans to be Jedi Knights

Well depending on what path you chose.

Also keep in mind that he's probably been hunted ever since.

Luke never got the proper Jedi training, force sensitives have been hunted by the empire, Luke has been hunted and there is a lot that can happen in 40 years. So yeah he "kind of failed" but on the other hand I wouldn't blame him...

In the expended universe he's founding the new jedi order ^.^ so that's something *g*

 

When Yoda and Obiwan went into hiding they didn't train that many pupils either did they?

[Amaurybegood]

Some posters.

D-33 (in France )

[Darth_Raichu]

5 hours ago, Locutus001 said:

Well depending on what path you chose.

Also keep in mind that he's probably been hunted ever since.

Luke never got the proper Jedi training, force sensitives have been hunted by the empire, Luke has been hunted and there is a lot that can happen in 40 years. So yeah he "kind of failed" but on the other hand I wouldn't blame him...

In the expended universe he's founding the new jedi order ^.^ so that's something *g*

 

When Yoda and Obiwan went into hiding they didn't train that many pupils either did they?

At the end of ep3, Sith won.  So Yoda and Ben went to hiding and could not train anyone because the Emperor and Darth Vader were hunting them.

HOWEVER, who would hunt Luke? Remember at the end of RotJ the Rebels won? He was practically the strongest creature alive at that point.

For training, Luke had access to at least THREE Jedi Ghost by the end of RotJ.  Surely they could teach him everything he needed to know in say 5 years as Luke was obviously gifted. 

 

As far as EU stories, they no longer exist according to Disney.

 

 

[Locutus001]

8 minutes ago, Darth_Raichu said:

At the end of ep3, Sith won.  So Yoda and Ben went to hiding and could not train anyone because the Emperor and Darth Vader were hunting them.

HOWEVER, who would hunt Luke? Remember at the end of RotJ the Rebels won? He was practically the strongest creature alive at that point.

For training, Luke had access to at least THREE Jedi Ghost by the end of RotJ.  Surely they could teach him everything he needed to know in say 5 years as Luke was obviously gifted. 

 

As far as EU stories, they no longer exist according to Disney.

 

 

The Rebels did win this fight but they didn't win the war. The empire has been more than just Palpatine and Vader. Of course it's shattered afterwards but the Grand Moffs still had enourmous power. So one fight surely didn't end the war.

And yes who is the biggest thread to the Grand Moffs and whatever's still standing of the empire? Luke Skywalker. If I'd be a high ranking imperial officer I'd be very well interested in using the new vacuum to climb up the ladder and possibly hunting down Skywalker at some point.

"Oh... well... Vader is death... Palpatine as well... guess we should just quit fighting now and admit that the rebels won".

Not going to happen. At least the "new order" as probably one of the more successful splintergroups of the old empire does not seem to be of the opinion that the rebels have won.

 

At the end of episode III not only did the Sith win the fight against the Jedi but Palpatine also singlehandedly ruled about everything. He was commanding both sides of the war. The trade federation as well as the galactic republic. No real enemies left after the last jedi went into hiding. So the situation of Palpatine/Vader at the end of Episode III is totally different to Luke's situation at the end of the return of the jedi. Luke isn't in charge of anything. He's more or less all by himself and just ONE (significant) figure of the rebel alliance. I'm sure that not everyone has been happy that the DS together with all his friends and/or some family has been destroyed. More then enough reason to even hunt Luke on a personal level.

[Darth_Raichu]

14 minutes ago, Locutus001 said:

The Rebels did win this fight but they didn't win the war. The empire has been more than just Palpatine and Vader. Of course it's shattered afterwards but the Grand Moffs still had enourmous power. So one fight surely didn't end the war.

And yes who is the biggest thread to the Grand Moffs and whatever's still standing of the empire? Luke Skywalker. If I'd be a high ranking imperial officer I'd be very well interested in using the new vacuum to climb up the ladder and possibly hunting down Skywalker at some point.

"Oh... well... Vader is death... Palpatine as well... guess we should just quit fighting now and admit that the rebels won".

Not going to happen. At least the "new order" as probably one of the more successful splintergroups of the old empire does not seem to be of the opinion that the rebels have won.

 

At the end of episode III not only did the Sith win the fight against the Jedi but Palpatine also singlehandedly ruled about everything. He was commanding both sides of the war. The trade federation as well as the galactic republic. No real enemies left after the last jedi went into hiding. So the situation of Palpatine/Vader at the end of Episode III is totally different to Luke's situation at the end of the return of the jedi. Luke isn't in charge of anything. He's more or less all by himself and just ONE (significant) figure of the rebel alliance. I'm sure that not everyone has been happy that the DS together with all his friends and/or some family has been destroyed. More then enough reason to even hunt Luke on a personal level.

Lol, any Moff who wanted to usurp powers would need to deal with the REAL opposing forces, ie Leia and THE REST of the rebels fleet plus all of those citizen who celebrated at the end of RotJ.  Most of the Imperial Officers did not believe in the force to begin with.  I am sorry my friend, you were really stretching the argument here.

[chipbee]

41 minutes ago, Darth_Raichu said:

Lol, any Moff who wanted to usurp powers would need to deal with the REAL opposing forces, ie Leia and THE REST of the rebels fleet plus all of those citizen who celebrated at the end of RotJ.  Most of the Imperial Officers did not believe in the force to begin with.  I am sorry my friend, you were really stretching the argument here.

I think Locutus001 do make a valid point on the rest of Empire being unhappy over the destruction of the 2nd death star in Episode 6. The rebels would be seen and portrayed as terrorists instead, and this can easily galvanised the empire to regroup quickly under a new leadership and proceed to hunt down the rebels. USA founding fathers were seen as terrorists at one point in time and hunted down the European powers.

Recall that Vader used the force liberally in the presence of his troops and senior officers, so why would they not believe in the force, especially in the dark side?

[thoroakenfelder]

That galaxy wide celebration at the end of Return of the Jedi is ludicrous. The shot of Coruscant, the seat of Imperial power with people pulling down the statue and crowd surfing a stormtrooper just makes no sense. It's the heart of darkness, the site of the most strident indoctrination and wouldn't be able to turn over a new leaf instantly. The war did not rage across and over their planet. Fighting did not touch there, so the people would know that their leader had been murdered and the Rebels had destroyed a massive number of troops and ships that were supposed to protect them. I would expect instant fear instead of celebration. High placed officials and military leaders wouldn't just give up. Imagine Goebbels, Goring, Himmler, or Jodl in Berlin still surrounded by all the trappings of Nazi might, with a still strong military policing most of Europe just after their leader died visiting a far off outpost that he leaked the information that he would be there just so he could personally watch the fight. Would they have just given up and gone into hiding? would they have consolidated what they had? Would they have fractured and created dozens of different factions along with a slew of other military and political leaders?

Also, we only saw a very few examples of celebration, maybe the rest of the galaxy was waiting for the other shoe to drop when these radical terrorists would impose their agenda.

[chipbee]

28 minutes ago, thoroakenfelder said:

That galaxy wide celebration at the end of Return of the Jedi is ludicrous. The shot of Coruscant, the seat of Imperial power with people pulling down the statue and crowd surfing a stormtrooper just makes no sense. It's the heart of darkness, the site of the most strident indoctrination and wouldn't be able to turn over a new leaf instantly. The war did not rage across and over their planet. Fighting did not touch there, so the people would know that their leader had been murdered and the Rebels had destroyed a massive number of troops and ships that were supposed to protect them. I would expect instant fear instead of celebration. High placed officials and military leaders wouldn't just give up. Imagine Goebbels, Goring, Himmler, or Jodl in Berlin still surrounded by all the trappings of Nazi might, with a still strong military policing most of Europe just after their leader died visiting a far off outpost that he leaked the information that he would be there just so he could personally watch the fight. Would they have just given up and gone into hiding? would they have consolidated what they had? Would they have fractured and created dozens of different factions along with a slew of other military and political leaders?

Also, we only saw a very few examples of celebration, maybe the rest of the galaxy was waiting for the other shoe to drop when these radical terrorists would impose their agenda.

Agree. Imagine today if an entire aircraft carrier group is destroyed, would most of USA rejoice? Or if there is a sneak attack on China, would the Chinese population celebrate on the streets? There are people who like control and order, because their power, wealth and income depends on it.

[jaisonline]

For those talking about what the Empire started to do  after (set 10143) DS II debacle, at least read recap of Aftermath.

[Locutus001]

1 hour ago, Darth_Raichu said:

Lol, any Moff who wanted to usurp powers would need to deal with the REAL opposing forces, ie Leia and THE REST of the rebels fleet plus all of those citizen who celebrated at the end of RotJ.  Most of the Imperial Officers did not believe in the force to begin with.  I am sorry my friend, you were really stretching the argument here.

 

16 minutes ago, jaisonline said:

For those talking about what the Empire started to do  after (set 10143) DS II debacle, at least read recap of Aftermath.

I thinkt he expanded universe isn't all that bad and I like some of the stories. Especially the yuuzhan wong saga. Admiral Thrawn is also one of the more popular characters. In the EU we have the imperial remnants who still govern big parts of the galaxy as well as the new republic. These are not the only two powers however, there are many smaller (and even bigger) powers. Which only makes sense in galaxy full of very different sentient species. I think a long aftermath that will someday end in a peace treaty between two former warring (waring?) fractions is a valid scenario.

Another example: If some rebels would decide to kill glorious supreme leader of the glorious nation of NorthKorea together with some of his highest officers I'd say that there still would be more than enough people willing to take over this power vacuum.

"The king is death. Long live the king!"

So seeing how one farm boy from tatooine could have that much power I'd like to have him out of my way before he blasts down my Death Star ;-)

(or Death Planet!!! ^.^ )

 

Anyhow! May the force be with you! :-)

[Darth_Raichu]

1 hour ago, chipbee said:

Recall that Vader used the force liberally in the presence of his troops and senior officers, so why would they not believe in the force, especially in the dark side?

He HAD TO show off his force choke PRECISELY BECAUSE that Moff DID NOT believe in the force/Sith "religion".  As in "Your lack of faith is disturbing".  This was about 20 years after Palpatine took power.  Surely that was long enough for them to believe?

 

1 hour ago, thoroakenfelder said:

That galaxy wide celebration at the end of Return of the Jedi is ludicrous.

I was just following the movie canon.  The decision to add those scenes were made by George Lucas.  I cannot be faulted by how crappy they were

 

[Darth_Raichu]

7 minutes ago, Locutus001 said:

I thinkt he expanded universe isn't all that bad and I like some of the stories. Especially the yuuzhan wong saga. Admiral Thrawn is also one of the more popular characters. In the EU we have the imperial remnants who still govern big parts of the galaxy as well as the new republic. These are not the only two powers however, there are many smaller (and even bigger) powers. Which only makes sense in galaxy full of very different sentient species. I think a long aftermath that will someday end in a peace treaty between two former warring (waring?) fractions is a valid scenario.

I agree with you that some EU stuffs like Thrawn Trilogy and the SW Legacy comics were great read.  But Disney did not acknowledge those, which was why my theories were based on movies+SW Rebels only.

[Locutus001]

4 minutes ago, Darth_Raichu said:

I agree with you that some EU stuffs like Thrawn Trilogy and the SW Legacy comics were great read.  But Disney did not acknowledge those, which was why my theories were based on movies+SW Rebels only.

What Disney will be doing isn't up to me. I was just saying that Luke might had have other things in mind than first finding and then training new Jedi. So I wouldn't blame him for anything. He's just some dude who wants to chill but the empire won't let him.

[exciter1]

11 minutes ago, Darth_Raichu said:

I was just following the movie canon.  The decision to add those scenes were mad by George Lucas.  I cannot be faulted by how crappy they were 

You've inspired me to break out my original (pre-Special Edition) box set this weekend.

[Darth_Raichu]

7 minutes ago, Locutus001 said:

What Disney will be doing isn't up to me. I was just saying that Luke might had have other things in mind than first finding and then training new Jedi. So I wouldn't blame him for anything. He's just some dude who wants to chill but the empire won't let him.

Agree to disagree then.  Even if the remnants of the Empire wanted to get him, he was still a freakin Jedi who could take care of himself.  If Anakin could train a padawan during the Clone Wars, why couldn't Luke?

 

[Sauromosis]

Everything I've seen from the trailers looks great.  I'm excited to see the movie.  And they might have a an excuse not to have Luke in the movie for more than a few minutes but I HATE, HATE the decision and I've been waiting since 1983 to see Luke be the most powerful Jedi Master in the universe.  Unless we see this in movie 8, they messed up big time.